Viper Strike

It seems Growing Agony Gem doesn't work with multistrike because the 3 strikes are regarded as a single attack, so the damage won't increase until the next 3 strikes. It would be nice the 3 strikes count separately and the poison debuff stacks 3 times, too.
Last edited by epitapher on Jan 8, 2016, 2:24:36 PM
Are you using one Growing Agony or 4?

You realize that it each jewel only provides 2% INCREASED damage per poison stack, right?

So if you hit 3 times, the first hit does your normal damage, the second hit has an additional 2% damage increase and the third hit has a further 2% increase?

And that these increases are additive with any other increased damage, increased melee damage, increased physical damage, etc. you have from your tree or gear?

Most builds have 200-300% increased damag from tree and gear.

So are you really trying to tell me that you can tell the difference between 300% and 302% increased damage?

I use 4 Growing Agony Jewels in a CoC build. My main 6 links are Viper Strike/CoC/Blade Vortex/Poison/Multistrike/Melee Splash to generate Blade Vortex stacks that all apply poison. I have about 10-20 Blade Vortex stacks at any time. That's between 20 and 40 additional poison stacks on each enemy every second. At 8% increased damage per stack of poison, that's 160 to 320% increased damage. After a single second. With my increased duration from the tree, my poison stacks last 2.8 seconds.

When I get a Bino's I think I will experiment with removing Melee Splash for Faster Attacks.

(I also have a CWDT/Blade Vortex/Power Charge on Crit/Poison setup and a Vengeance/Cast on Crit/Blade Vortex/Poison setup to help proc lots and lots of Blade Vortex and lots and lots of poison stacks).

Across the half of a second that my Multistrike takes, I notice a big difference between the initial hit and the third hit (if I have 20 blades up, after half a second, the enemy should have 23-25 stacks of poison, which is 200% increased damage).

I also use Vaal Double Strike with Faster Attacks, Multistrike, and Poison. I don't even know how many stacks this puts on a boss, but they MELT. Probably ~100 poison stacks over the 2.8 second duration? so 800% increased damage?

EDIT:

I should get a Flame Totem. Flame Totem/Faster Cast/Added Chaos/Poison. Give up the CWDT setup for that. Another 7+ stacks per second on bosses.

Thanks for letting me think through this. :)
It's worth noting that +2 maps are a dangerous thing.
They can cause players to get out of their depth -
playing maps that are too hard for the items they currently have. Herp Derp.
Last edited by RickyDMMontoya on Jan 18, 2016, 8:17:36 PM
"
Are you using one Growing Agony or 4?

You realize that it each jewel only provides 2% INCREASED damage per poison stack, right?

So if you hit 3 times, the first hit does your normal damage, the second hit has an additional 2% damage increase and the third hit has a further 2% increase?

And that these increases are additive with any other increased damage, increased melee damage, increased physical damage, etc. you have from your tree or gear?

Most builds have 200-300% increased damag from tree and gear.

So are you really trying to tell me that you can tell the difference between 300% and 302% increased damage?

I use 4 Growing Agony Jewels in a CoC build. My main 6 links are Viper Strike/CoC/Blade Vortex/Poison/Multistrike/Melee Splash to generate Blade Vortex stacks that all apply poison. I have about 10-20 Blade Vortex stacks at any time. That's between 20 and 40 additional poison stacks on each enemy every second. At 8% increased damage per stack of poison, that's 160 to 320% increased damage. After a single second. With my increased duration from the tree, my poison stacks last 2.8 seconds.

When I get a Bino's I think I will experiment with removing Melee Splash for Faster Attacks.

(I also have a CWDT/Blade Vortex/Power Charge on Crit/Poison setup and a Vengeance/Cast on Crit/Blade Vortex/Poison setup to help proc lots and lots of Blade Vortex and lots and lots of poison stacks).

Across the half of a second that my Multistrike takes, I notice a big difference between the initial hit and the third hit (if I have 20 blades up, after half a second, the enemy should have 23-25 stacks of poison, which is 200% increased damage).

I also use Vaal Double Strike with Faster Attacks, Multistrike, and Poison. I don't even know how many stacks this puts on a boss, but they MELT. Probably ~100 poison stacks over the 2.8 second duration? so 800% increased damage?

EDIT:

I should get a Flame Totem. Flame Totem/Faster Cast/Added Chaos/Poison. Give up the CWDT setup for that. Another 7+ stacks per second on bosses.

Thanks for letting me think through this. :)





I use 3 of them. The 3 consecutive strikes from multistrike give the exact same damage, only the following 3 strikes of next "attack" increase. Take out Poison and COC setup and CWDT setup then find a low level boss with only multistrike(or maybe melee damage if it isn't obvious) to try it out, also don't use good gear otherwise the monster dies quickly and you can hardly observe it, I found this because my character was around 75, and didn't have proper gear then. It hits harder every "attack", not "strike". The reason you feel it's strong because the Blade + Posion setup gives posion stacks quickly, and the monster may not last long enough for you to see. I only suggest that multistrike doesn't work because the 3 strikes are regarded as ONE attack, like crit, either they all crit or none. So the Growing Agony has the same problem, it has to be next "attack", in this case after exactly 3 strikes, will the damage increase. The poison stacks of 3 strikes may work fine(which I can't tell) but the direct damage of 3 strikes from one "attack" are same, and the increase between "attacks" is obvious. It works well if you have other ways to get poison stack quickly but has nothing to do with multistrike, change it to another proper gem they would still melt.
Last edited by epitapher on Jan 26, 2016, 7:17:22 AM
On further experiment with my setup, I think you might be right.

I actually took Multistrike out of my links because it became a liability.

I was one-shotting everything anyway, so all it was doing was making me stand around swinging at air.

By replacing it with boring old Faster Attacks, I barely had any tooltip DPS loss, and the increased mobility more than makes up for it.



Here's my passive tree. To finish it, more health, more dagger crit:

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwIBAF4A7gX5CC4PqxUgFfAWvxmKGY4ZtBvII_YkiyT9JpUqCypNLOktgzBxMgE2PTfUOkI-zz8nR35LV0t4TZJRR1VLVYVZbV3yX5hfsGHiYqxlTWyMbWxvnnBSdwd7FH11hMWE2YazhxOJ04wLjDaNfY2_lLiVzJcGmyabjZu1nKSdqqOKpcuyGbl8vTa95r6nwOPCjsM6ykrPMs96z93TftQj3ajjhOdU7LDtP-2D7g7vevGK8bP2o_lj_rr_3g==

Tooltip is ~10,000 with Frenzy and Power charges up, at 68% crit chance (not including Assassin's Mark on Blasphemy). Considering I'm hitting most white things with around ~400% increased damage, and hitting most bosses with ~2000% increased damage after a couple seconds, and have 0% increased damage from the tree, it's pretty good. That doesn't even take into account the actual poison damage from Viper Strike, or the damage from Blade Vortex/Flame Totem and poison.
It's worth noting that +2 maps are a dangerous thing.
They can cause players to get out of their depth -
playing maps that are too hard for the items they currently have. Herp Derp.
Last edited by RickyDMMontoya on Feb 1, 2016, 3:34:18 PM
"
On further experiment with my setup, I think you might be right.

I actually took Multistrike out of my links because it became a liability.

I was one-shotting everything anyway, so all it was doing was making me stand around swinging at air.

By replacing it with boring old Faster Attacks, I barely had any tooltip DPS loss, and the increased mobility more than makes up for it.



Here's my passive tree. To finish it, more health, more dagger crit:

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwIBAF4A7gX5CC4PqxUgFfAWvxmKGY4ZtBvII_YkiyT9JpUqCypNLOktgzBxMgE2PTfUOkI-zz8nR35LV0t4TZJRR1VLVYVZbV3yX5hfsGHiYqxlTWyMbWxvnnBSdwd7FH11hMWE2YazhxOJ04wLjDaNfY2_lLiVzJcGmyabjZu1nKSdqqOKpcuyGbl8vTa95r6nwOPCjsM6ykrPMs96z93TftQj3ajjhOdU7LDtP-2D7g7vevGK8bP2o_lj_rr_3g==

Tooltip is ~10,000 with Frenzy and Power charges up, at 68% crit chance (not including Assassin's Mark on Blasphemy). Considering I'm hitting most white things with around ~400% increased damage, and hitting most bosses with ~2000% increased damage after a couple seconds, and have 0% increased damage from the tree, it's pretty good. That doesn't even take into account the actual poison damage from Viper Strike, or the damage from Blade Vortex/Flame Totem and poison.



Thanks for the tree, looks cool, I'll try it out~~~
"
epitapher wrote:
It seems Growing Agony Gem doesn't work with multistrike because the 3 strikes are regarded as a single attack, so the damage won't increase until the next 3 strikes.
That is not the case.

"
epitapher wrote:
It would be nice the 3 strikes count separately and the poison debuff stacks 3 times, too.
This is what occurs. The attack cannot repeat until the previous repeat has finished. Assuming it didn't miss, this will mean there's an extra poison on the enemy, and this is counted when damage is calculated for the next repeat, increasing it's damage.
I will double check that this evening with a very slow weapon.

With my build, with 10-12 stacks of Blade Vortex up and a Flame Totem going hard, an enemy should have 15 to 20 additional poison stacks between the first and the third hit, if they are half a second apart.

I'll try and slow my attack speed and damage down, but my experience with Multistrike, when I took into account the damage that the BV and and poison and Totem were doing, was that the 'chunking' from the actual hits was very much the same.

I will test with Emberwake to take crit out of the mix entirely.

Considering I have no increased damage from passives or supports or gear, even just 15 stacks is 120% increased damage. So it should be super easy to notice if the third hit is doing double the damage of the first hit.
It's worth noting that +2 maps are a dangerous thing.
They can cause players to get out of their depth -
playing maps that are too hard for the items they currently have. Herp Derp.
Last edited by RickyDMMontoya on Feb 11, 2016, 4:47:12 PM
If you want to use a slow weapon, and have other things apply poison while you swing, you need to take into account that damage for a swing is determined at the start of the swing, so poison gained between starting a swing and it connecting won't be included.
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
If you want to use a slow weapon, and have other things apply poison while you swing, you need to take into account that damage for a swing is determined at the start of the swing, so poison gained between starting a swing and it connecting won't be included.


I'm a little confused. Does that mean after the 1st strike of multistrike, only poison applied by viper strike will increase the damage of the 3rd strike, and all other kind of poison applied by other skills doesn't count until next 3 strikes starts? And what if the target is changed during the 3 strikes since multistrike grants auto targeting? Thank you very much!
No, it means that for any single strike, the damage is calculated when that strike starts, and poison added by other entities between that point and when the strike lands can't factor into that damage calculation because it wasn't there. That poison clearly is there for the next strike starting, so does count to that one.

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