Viper Strike

I can understand the confusion. It's not entirely intuitive unless you consider the mechanic of 'debuff' separate from the mechanic of 'charges'... which imo is not intuitively separable, and to me, as well as the previous poster, it's more intuitive to believe all effects are of type 'poison'... however this is not how the game treats them.

I consider viper charges to be a visual indicator of a poison (chaos) debuff... debuff here meaning any effect over time that is negative.

Overall I agree with the previous poster that the separation intended is not conveyed to someone without specific explanation. Take that for what it's worth.

If you have account problems please [url="http://www.pathofexile.com/support"]Email Support[/url]
It is possible that I am relying on outdated information provided here (March 10):

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/21343/highlight/

Mainly these two pieces:

"
Mark_GGG wrote:
Buff/Debuff durations apply to buffs/debuffs applied by skills, and it's not possible for them to be applied without skill duration also being applied.

This is the primary section which generated the "both skill gems." Unless there are 2 different fire spells that have different types of "burning" or cold spells with different types of "frozen".

"
Mark_GGG wrote:
The poison in this case is treated as a status effect like burning, so is not affected, although it could technically be called a "debuff".


Adder's Touch - "Critical strikes with Daggers Poison the enemy"
Viper Strike - "Poisons the foe, which can stack up to 4 times. Each time they are re-poisoned the duration is extended."
Poison Arrow - "Enemies who enter the cloud are poisoned for a short time, taking chaos damage."

As for the duration, I thought Adder's Touch was a flat 2 second duration?

As far as Frenzy and Blood Rage, am I mistaken that both abilities give the exact same TYPE of Frenzy Charge?

Maybe I'm just being a stickler for consistency. Perhaps a rewording of Viper Strike to "Plagues the foe" or "Envenoms the foe". Then, at least, poisons are one thing and this Viper Strike damage is another.

Again, sorry if this seems argumentative but I keep researching different ways to build my char and I keep finding hidden nuances that weakens them....
"
IrishKigoi wrote:
Mainly these two pieces:

"
Mark_GGG wrote:
Buff/Debuff durations apply to buffs/debuffs applied by skills, and it's not possible for them to be applied without skill duration also being applied.

This is the primary section which generated the "both skill gems." Unless there are 2 different fire spells that have different types of "burning" or cold spells with different types of "frozen".
Now I'm even more confused. The part you quoted is explaining that if an effect has buff duration increases apply to it, it also must have skill duration increases apply. It has nothing to do with effects from different gems. I literally cannot see any connection here to what you're saying, beyond the fact both are referring to the poison debuff.
No, there are not two different fire kinds of "burning" caused by different skills. Neither are there two different kinds of poison from poison arrow and adder's touch.
Viper strike is different from them, and is clearly visually distinguished, and clearly uses different mechanics (charges).

If there was a skill dealing fire damage over time in a way that's clearly mechanically different to what burning does *cough0.9.9cough*, that debuff would not be the burning debuff, and would stack with it.

"
IrishKigoi wrote:
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
The poison in this case is treated as a status effect like burning, so is not affected, although it could technically be called a "debuff".


Adder's Touch - "Critical strikes with Daggers Poison the enemy"
Viper Strike - "Poisons the foe, which can stack up to 4 times. Each time they are re-poisoned the duration is extended."
Poison Arrow - "Enemies who enter the cloud are poisoned for a short time, taking chaos damage."
I was not aware Viper strike's description used the word poison like that - I don't use the skill much, and it didn't when I wrote the description. I can see how that increases confusion, but I still feel that the fact the effect is clearly visually distinguished is a reasonable hint that it's not the same effect as the generic poison.

"
IrishKigoi wrote:
As for the duration, I thought Adder's Touch was a flat 2 second duration?
Yep, that was my mistake, forgot it worked like burning and not freeze in that respect - fixed duration, but amount of damage per minute varies with the damage dealt.

"
IrishKigoi wrote:
As far as Frenzy and Blood Rage, am I mistaken that both abilities give the exact same TYPE of Frenzy Charge?
No, you're not. There aren't (and can't be) different 'kinds' of frenzy charge. I was referring to the actual buff put on you by blood rage, not the charges it generates, and comparing that buff to a frenzy charge - as an analogy to you comparing viper strike which clearly uses charges, to the poison effect which is clearly a non-charge buff and expecting they were the same.

"
IrishKigoi wrote:
Maybe I'm just being a stickler for consistency. Perhaps a rewording of Viper Strike to "Plagues the foe" or "Envenoms the foe". Then, at least, poisons are one thing and this Viper Strike damage is another.
I would not be opposed to such a change - as I said above, I didn't know Viper Strike's description had change to what it is now, but it's not my call. I'll bring it up sometime when things are less busy.
Last edited by Mark_GGG on Apr 30, 2012, 10:05:35 PM
To clear this up, I would clearly distinguish and label skills as applying 'buff/debuff' vs. 'charges/badcharges'

We need a new word for bad charges though...

Applies a poison debuff vs. applies a poison charge.

Then somewhere else, a manual or a splashscreen tip or SOMETHING, needs to specifically say that buffs stack with charges. I would not assume that anything is obvious.
If you have account problems please [url="http://www.pathofexile.com/support"]Email Support[/url]
I like this skill for kiting tough bosses or rares with a melee character, especially those with regeneration or an energy shield. I think the DPS should be viewed in the context of hit-and-run melee combat, when compared to other skills. When it fails even there compared to more traditional melee skills, is when it needs to be buffed.
Should have posted this here, instead of in the suggestions forum:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/31731

Summarized:

Change Viper strike so that using the skill always automatically targets the enemy with the highest remaining health, close enough to the player to be hit - comparable to flicker strike, which also automatically targets an enemy, but without the teleporting - only target enemies within melee range.
Path of Exile Toolkit - Currency Parser/Comparer - http://poetoolkit.com/
Last edited by BlackDeathBE on May 13, 2012, 3:48:15 PM
"
BlackDeathBE wrote:
Salways automatically targets the enemy with the highest remaining health,

What? Why?!?

There is no logical reason for Viper Strike to target the person with the highest health.

what do you mean, no logical reason ? in the linked thread, i try to explain it. basically, to make most use of the DoT of the skill.
unless you want to keep it a 'boss-only' skill... but then we're back at no good mass-killing skills for the shadow class...
Path of Exile Toolkit - Currency Parser/Comparer - http://poetoolkit.com/
Your suggestion makes it a horrible "mass killing" skill. I don't think you thought it through....
For some reason this skill can be used with two-handed swords (which are at a disadvantage in the AoE department, having only access to cleave, rather than sweep of 2handed axes/staffs or ground slam of 2handed maces/staffs).

I think it'd be a nice buff if using two-handed swords applied two viper strike charges per hit.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info