Vulnerability

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Balance & Design
Last bumped on Sep 24, 2020, 5:32:35 AM
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FaceLicker wrote:
Out of curiousity.. since this gem is called 'Vulnerability' and is all about the debuffs, why does it increase enemy block and stun recovery?
I probably screwed up a stat description, I will be back at work in a day or two and will check that out.
All feedback after this point is for 0.9.6.
Balance & Design
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Lo4f wrote:
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Zaanus wrote:
Question, does the 40% burning damage work like example A or example B

ticks of 100 base burning with 30% increased from passives

A) 100 x 1.3 x 1.4 = 182

or

B) 100 x 1.7 = 170

A) This would be case if vulnerability said "Cursed enemies take 40% more damage from Damage Over Time effects"

B) This is the right idea. Combine all 'increased' bonuses and apply them.
Not true, as they are not applying to the same thing. There's a difference between modifying damage dealt and modifying damage taken.

increased burning damage applies to how much DPS is set in the burning debuff when it's created. It modifies how much damage you put on the enemy in your burn.

"take increased damage from damage over time effects" applies each game tick to the amount of damage actually taken by the buff for that time interval. It's changing the amount of damage the enemy gets dealt by the burn they now have.

It's impossible for them to stack additively because they apply at different times to (slightly) different things, and are not in the same stats set (you have your stats, the enemy has their stats. they are separate).

I'll probably change it to "more" for now since that'll be more intuitive to some players - you don't need to know this stuff to understand it (and it matches the similar "take more physical damage",) but if we eventually do have other increases to damage taken from degen, it will stack additively with them, not multiplicatively, and will need to be changed back.

If you have a stat which increases your damage, and the enemy has a stat which increases the damage they take, those stats will not (and can not) stack additively - the increased/more distinction describes how stats stack with other stats of the same kind which are applying to the same thing, which is not the case here.
Where one stat is applied when you're working out how much damage you deal, and another is applied when that damage is dealt to work out how much enemy actually takes, those are different (although similar) things being changed and it's impossible for those to be additive with each other, although stats on each side can and often are additive with each other.
Last edited by Mark_GGG on Mar 5, 2012, 9:43:11 PM
Feedback after this point is for 0.9.7
Balance & Design
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Kinne wrote:
Someone mentioned it earlier but the wording "Cursed enemies have an additional 10% chance to get stunned" on this gem seems to be inconsistent with the rest of the game. Should it not say: Cursed enemies have 10% reduced stun threshold?
Those are not the same thing.
Reducing their stun threshold changes how much damage would be needed to cause a stun regularly.
Chance to be stunned gives every hit on them a chance to cause a stun regardless of damage.
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taekvideo wrote:
The word "additional" seems to suggest additive stacking with other sources (such as your threshhold-based stun chance), but I'm not sure it does.

If it's a completely separate roll then it shouldn't say "additional chance", since it doesn't add to the chance. It should just say "Monsters have a 10% chance to be stunned when hit", which would make it clear that it's a separate roll.
You are correct, this currently is not an actual addition to the stun chance, but a separate roll. This will be fixed in future - thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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BRavich wrote:
What was the conclusion regarding "increased" damage taken from damage over time effects? As it stands I'm just a bit confused as to why the word is "increased"


Are there any other affects that could stack with it additively?
More instances of the same stat, should another source of it be found/implemented. Also Shocked.
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BRavich wrote:
Hang on... isnt shocked considered "more" damage?
Shocked is 40% increased damage taken. It stacks additively with other increases to damage taken.

Note that modifiers to damage taken are not the same as modifiers to damage dealt. Your modifiers to your damage you deal calculate the damage, then this is reduced by enemy mitigation (resists/armour/etc), then the remaining amount is affected by modifiers to damage taken.
So "increased damage" on you and "increased damage taken" on an enemy do not stack additively together, because they affect different values. So shocked on an enemy is multiplicative (sorta - mitigation gets in the middle) with your increases to the damage you're dealing, but additive with other increases to damage taken by the enemy, such as from Vulnerability.
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ArchAngelAdam wrote:
I want to clarify a small issue with the Vulnerability description. The description says, "Curses all enemies in an area, making them take increased damage from physical attacks", but below the description in the tool-tip it says "Cursed enemies take 25% more physical damage".
The skill description is in error (and will be fixed). The stats as listed on the skill are correct - it's all physical damage taken, not restricted to attacks.

If it ever comes to choosing between trusting the listed stats, the descriptions of which are automatically generated based on what stats the skill actually has at that point, or the skill's text description, which is based on what someone wrote in a little box somewhere, smart money is always on the stats being correct.

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