Added Fire Damage

great good job guy!!! keep on it!!
This gem appears to be interacting with passive elemental and fire boosts improperly and erratically. I have noticed the inconsistency on all of my physical damage characters.

I tested the gem extensively last night using a level 60 Templar. I stripped off all relevant gear and used an axe with a fire damage mod. I compared my base attack to Leap Slam supported by a level 14 Added Fire Damage Gem (43% of Physical Damage added as Fire Damage).

Under all circumstances, the passive nodes themselves returned the proper fire damage boost, when not including the Added Fire Gem.

I used all of my Orbs of Regret to reduce my passive fire boost to 23% (using the first 3 elemental nodes on the northern path of Templar). I then added, one at a time, more elemental/fire passives. Results are as follows:

At 23% passive boost, Added Fire Damage had a contribution of 38.5% instead of 43%.

At 59% passive boost (Lava Lash), the gem had a contribution of 34% instead of 43%.

At 79% passive boost (west most Weapon Elemental Damage), the gem had a contribution of 32% instead of 43%.

At 124% passive boost (Catalyze), the gem had a contribution of 29.5% instead of 43%

At this point it appeared to be some kind of diminishing return issue, but then:

At 144% passive boost (WED), the gem had a contribution of 33.5% instead of 43%.

At 164% passive boost (WED), there was a low/high divergence and the gem had a contribution of 36.7% to 37.7% instead of 43%.

I intended to test Hatred as well, since it has the same mechanic, but I ran out of Regrets. Feel free to put a few stack of them in my bag ;)

Disclaimer: Math is not my strongest skill. I do hold a finance degree, but that is more like math for short bus riders.
Well for one thing Ground Slam has increased physical damage and 12% less damage. Then there's how the converted damage calculates increases and such and it becomes more confusing. It's really not obvious what you're saying without some numbers. What you mean by the contribution isn't evident and the percents you give aren't at all consistent with each other or otherwise functional and expected previous behavior.

If it's the total DPS there's the issue that with other elemental bonuses those will get more of a relative effect than the converted damage would because it already has increases from physical.

That is: If you have 100% increased physical damage,
10-20 base phys
10-20 base lightning
50% of phys added as fire

Then you end up with
20-40 physical
10-20 lightning
10-20 fire
(total damage 40-80, avg 60)

If you add 100% increased elemental it ends up like this
20-40 physical
20-40 lightning
15-30 fire
(total damage 55-115, avg 85, 42% more than before where 50% of the damage was elemental)

Last edited by Umbraal on Jun 29, 2012, 9:32:27 PM
I did not say anything about Ground Slam.

I provided plenty enough numbers for anyone to test this for themselves. The issue is neither complex nor complicated . . . the added fire gem is behaving erratically with elemental passives.

It is not simply that it is providing less damage than it reads, it's that is is providing random amounts of damage possibly depending on how much total passive contribution you have, or possibly depending on which specific passive contributions you have.

In a nutshell:

The formula for fire damage contribution, as I understand it, should be (Physical Damage)*(Added Fire Damage Skill Gem)*(Total Passive Boosts).

I have currently equipped a level 14 Added Fire Damage Gem (43%) with a Leap Slam on a non magic weapon. I currently have 164% passive elemental and/or fire passive boosts.

Checking the DPS of the Leap Slam skill reveals physical damage of 66 to 97.

Therefore, for low end damage, the formula should be 66 * .43 * 264%, for a total of 75 fire damage. The actual fire damage is 48. Apparently the Added Fire Damage gem is *contributing* a 27.6% increase instead of 43% (66 * .276 * 264% = 48).

On the high end, the formula should be 97 * .43 * 264%, for a total of 110 fire damage. The actual fire damage is 71. Again, the Added Fire Damage gem is *contributing* about a 27.6% increase instead of 43% (97 * .276 * 264% = 71).

Further, if i swap in a different weapon that includes a fire mod on it (in this case 20 to 44) the *contribution* from Added Fire Damage changes from 27.6% with the white (no mod) weapon to 36.7% with the fire mod weapon. As a reminder, this is a 43% gem.

I cannot be any more clear given my limited command of both English and mathematics.
You're doing it wrong.
You have to take the base physical damage before all other modifiers, then add your increased physical and elemental damage to that to get the amount. So in that case it won't give 43% of your total amount, because that would turn increased amounts into a multiplicative modifer with physical, so they're summed as increased modifers are.

I think that the contribution 'changing' in your other case may just be an understanding somewhere between how the increases are applied.

Your other changes are because you grabbed strength nodes and inc physical damage along the way, from items or passives and it's changed the damage.

Regardless I can't reproduce this at all, all the damage conversions have worked exactly as expected for me.
what does quality do for this?
"
Umbraal wrote:
You're doing it wrong.
You have to take the base physical damage before all other modifiers, then add your increased physical and elemental damage to that to get the amount. So in that case it won't give 43% of your total amount, because that would turn increased amounts into a multiplicative modifer with physical, so they're summed as increased modifers are.
This is pretty much correct. Converting damage is not done by making additive increases into multiplicative ones. If you provide your base damage values of each type (from weapon and any gear which adds damage), and all your passive, skill, support and/or gear % modifiers to he relevant damage types, I can run the numbers for you.

This post gives a run down of damage for using added fire damage with infernal blow, which might help you.
Although I like this skill gem, it would be nice to be able to add a flat fire damage bonus to some skills.
My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282
Does this work properly with the Hatred aura? My Burning Arrow has 3400+ dps and it just doesn't feel like I'm doing that much damage.
I'm assuming this support gem does not work for skills that solely rely on fire damage, such as Flame Totem and Fire Trap. Can someone confirm this assumption?
For Ranger build tips, tactics, and critiques, visit this thread:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/69224

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