Ancestral Warchief

I wonder you guys from GGG, how do you arrive to a decision. Because it is good to arrive to a decision, rather than just making it. You see a build with 2m DPS on Youtube and decide to nerf a certain skill or.. how ? I play since the beta rarely commenting, just accepting the changes and moving on... now i will do the the same, but just wondering...

So 2 days ago I was wondering what should i play in the new league... wanted something with no item requirements, some safety... maybe some new skill.. etc... Hey, ancestral warchief. for 2 days i am wondering if i should pick this guy over a shockwave classic totem with the ancestral bond keystone. I didn't saw it on the tooltip, but i like testing stuff, also i like math.. so .. i tested it and it seems like it was with 16 range same as the protector. and i started doing some math... whatever i decided to pick would have been converted all to fire with Avatar of fire, pyre... chernobog, blackgleam etc... cause.. u know... physical can't be scaled further than melee physical support gem.. or lets say conc effect (full life and bloodlust are just, don't want to even start here)... and because how the mitigation of small physical hits works in this game (which i also don't get why is the mechanic as it is)... but ok... so Warchief has 16 range... now in 2.5 it will have 10 range.. 10 is the range of which thе attack is performed, from the spot where the attack takes place u have another 10 radius SPLASH slam that kills stuff around it... flexible. but after 2.5 it seems like not...

"....and the slam will always be centered at melee range away from the totem."

Overall with 16 range (the current one) u hit, than you slam monsters 16 range further, that's a 32 diameter (from the totem in a direction of his choise) ... now shockwave has 20 radius, thats a diameter of 40, which is higher, but it always cast it from itself, so either pick smaller AoE of the attack, but overall higher AoE coverage with Warchief, or go with higher AoE of attack but less AoE coverage with shockwave...

Lets put it that way: S = Pi*r*r (where S is the Coverage of AoE, r is the radius and Pi)
with 10 range and 10 radius of Warchief we now have

S=3.14*10*10
S=314 Pixels or AoE coverage of Warchief

Lets see what the math shows for Shockwave (20 radius)

S=3,14*20*20
S=1256 Pixels or AoE coverage of Shockwave

So, not only the slam will be centered, and its becoming shockwave style, not only the range decrease, along with the flexibility of the skill, but you also decided to nerf it with 10% less damage.

There should be a catch i guess no i decided to take a look at the posibilities of scaling the damage of the warchief and shockwave.. leaving the AoE aside..

So damage of 20lvl shockwave is: 231 to 429 ( i can further scale this if I wear a wand for like 60-80% spell damage or in my case with Avatar even further with some elemental damage affix, also, i can wear my chernobog and dont lack defenses...

Then i take a look of some of the weapons for ancestral warchief, because i will need a good weapon to scale its damage.

THIS: ---> http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Atziri%27s_Disfavour
has base damage of (299 to 314)–(401 to 421)

So now, i pick a weapon 2 HANDED, screw the shield defences and block just to achieve the base DAMAGE of the Shockwave totem, which max is 429....

(299 to 314)–(401 to 421) - This will be the damage with one of the TOP tier 2handed weapons that i start to scale further

------ summarize, I will have less AoE, I will have Either the same damage, lacking the shield, Or less damage of warchief compared to shockwave if i go one handed....

Lets take a look at Warchief again, since its not a spell, it ALSO uses your chance to hit... so not only I will I have less AoE, Also less damage if i keep my shield and use 1 handed, but i will also have to further invest in Accuracy so my Warchief don't miss

Resolute Tehnique you will say, I say don't give a **** about chance to hit, pick Shockwave, and just crit with Ice spear to proc your Elemental Overload to boost the shockwave even more...

So even here WArchief dont have advantage...

Finally i got to the casting/atack speed... these two are affecting the final damage output of both Shockwave and Warchief, how are things going on here ?

1.66 casts per second Shockwave (1/0.60 cast time)
1,34-1,39 atacks per socond iwth Atziri's Disfavour for Warchief

btw i forgot WArchief has 10% less atack speed so... should i do the math again !?


Finally, stop nerfing normally functioning skills because some guys decide to exploit the poison mechanic... just attach it to chaos ONLY rather than physical and it will be all fine... i still can't understand what the poison stuff is doing in the physical section anyway... mines with poison, poison bladefall , poison blade vortex, poison blade furry, poison totems, poison everywhere... just fix the dem broken mechanic, rather than making skills never used... And Legacy Voidheart ?! Seriously ? for 4 ascendancy points u give 20-30% chance to either poison or bleed like assasin or gladiator.... and then a unique ring with 100% poison... AND bleed... i am amused

U fire ----> u ignite
U light ----- > u shock
U cold ----- > u freeze
U Phys ---- > u bleed
U chaos ----- > u poison
"
twiztedmind wrote:
so Warchief has 16 range... now in 2.5 it will have 10 range.. 10 is the range of which thе attack is performed, from the spot where the attack takes place u have another 10 radius SPLASH slam that kills stuff around it... flexible. but after 2.5 it seems like not...



The skill now has +10 melee range at all levels, and the slam will always be centered at melee range away from the totem

so you think + 10 range means it will have only 10 range?
I thought it will mean 26 range.
This is what the patch notes are:

"Ancestral Warchief now does 10% less damage at all levels. Fixed behaviour with the center of the slam being significantly further away than the totem's melee range. The skill now has +10 melee range at all levels, and the slam will always be centered at melee range away from the totem."

-10% less damage - this one is clear

"Fixed behaviour with the center of the slam being significantly further away than the totem's melee range. The skill now has +10 melee range at all levels"

- so now at 16 range u hit a mob, 2.5 u hit a mob with max range of 10.. and the center of the slam is at that 10 range away fro the totem, that it hits a target....

and finally:

"The skill now has +10 melee range at all levels, and the slam will always be centered at MELEE range away FROM THE TOTEM."

The center of the slam is currently where the slam takes place a.k.a MAX 16 range away from the totem (tag is missing but its the same as Ancestral protector, which has its tag of "16 melee range") Of course it is variable, if the mob is at 5 range from the totem, and totem hits it, then the slam will occur at 5 range... with radius of 16.

now not only the range of the attack is reduced (from 16 to 10) but the slam won't take place from that 10 range where the attack occur - and further 10 thanks to the slam itself (even 16 if i am wrong) but instead from range 0 (where the actual totem is, same as shockwave works, both case scenario 10 or 16 range if the AoE comes from the totem, and not from the occured 10 radius slam, its just weaker... and it sucks at every aspect ... damage, chance to hit, AoE coverage per atack, attack speed, even sacrificing defences to make the damage close to the shockwave.... maths just dont lie... fancy- yeah, effective - more like no..

...sure, if you use something like Starforge, combining it with CI, to multiply it not only with melee physical and conc effect but also with Melee damage on full life support, and maybe proc some bleed by yourself... then put a bloodlust in it for a total of 4 physical multiliers it will go imba again, but i dont think thats a problem of the skill itself, its a problem of the certain items/mechanics.... thats just a prove that even nerfing a skill for 90% of the players, of which 80% wont use, cause they know the mechanics well... will still can go INSANE by the rest 10% that knows the mechanics well... personalyl i will link it with the 4 mentioned above, and poison, no actually i will get rid of the bloodlust, to make it smoother and just put faster attacks... Warchief + AoE(conc for bosses) + melee physical + melee on full life + faster attacks + poison... thats in case you dont have Legacy Voidheart so you can Bleed+poison them to daath... u dont even need a fkin 6 link then... maybe put a STUN gem in the 6 link in it just for the LOLZ... Stunned boss bleeding/poisoned to death by the OP recently nerfed to the ground warchief... then u can nerf it more...
Last edited by twiztedmind on Nov 30, 2016, 3:55:09 PM
this is what i found

chris_wilsonLead Developer 101 points 19 hours ago

Just for the record, the range was increased because we fixed the bug where the range was wayyyy too far.

https://dd.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/5fmigg/content_update_250_patch_notes/dalda29/

the way i understand it it won't be able to hit with the center dmg line increase area of effect radius
"Just for the record, the range was increased because we fixed the bug where the range was wayyyy too far."

The way I understand it

"It was supposed to be at melee range wchich is 5-6-7 regular melee range weapons, but it was actually 16, so it was a bug... now we fix it to 5-6-7... and we INCREASE it to 10"

*
Melee weapons have the following base range:[1]

Axe, One-Handed: 5
Axe, Two-Handed: 7
Claw: 5
Dagger: 5
Mace, One-Handed: 5
Mace, Two-Handed: 6
Sceptre: 5
Sword, One Handed: 6
Sword, Thrusting One-Handed: 7
Sword, Two Handed: 6
Staff: 6
Unarmed: 4
Last edited by twiztedmind on Nov 30, 2016, 3:59:03 PM
me inglish spelignes iz ameizignes ......
whelp... i hope you are wrong
Oh, yeah, Hope, haven't heard of that bit** recently. Give her my best... if you can :)
"now not only the range of the attack is reduced (from 16 to 10) but the slam won't take place from that 10 range where the attack occur - and further 10 thanks to the slam itself (even 16 if i am wrong) but instead from range 0 (where the actual totem is"

I have no idea where you got that idea from.

The explosion is placed at melee range from the Totem. The Totem has +10 Melee Weapon Range. It's clearly not centered on the Totem. :/
Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 30, 2016, 8:21:15 PM
"
Vipermagi wrote:
They do generate Frenzy Charges. Totems have a maximum of zero Frenzy and Power Charges.

There's a simple reason for this: Totems (and traps and mines) use your offensive stats, not their own. They don't benefit from having F/P Charges anyways.


I take that from the patch notes...

"...and the slam will always be centered at melee range away from the totem."

Away from the totem, not away from the slam... totem is at 0 range, atack is at max 10 range...
Whatever here are the two scenarios

http://imgur.com/a/srFk4

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