Cumulative Atlas Completion Bonus

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Dr_Green wrote:

Let's assume that you are actually mapping at your supposed wall doing a t11 map and that it is your highest map. You are killing a blue pack and the game decides it wants to drop a t11. Now without the map upgrade bonus you didn't make progress cause you are still stuck at t11 but with the bonus the game bow upgrades the drop to a t12 and you can run that t12 and have the chance at a t13 or 14.
You can formulate that scenario for every tier except 16, hence the bonus let's you progress through the map tiers alot faster at every tier. It won't just shift the wall by 1 to 2 tiers. It will also help you sustain the tier that you are at because every drop that was 1 tier below you will now be a drop of the tier you are at.
I know that the 100% map drop bonus would also do the things i outlined but you seem to be implying that the new bonus won't help with map sustain or progression at all which is ridiculous.

The problem is when the blue pack decides to drop a +1 or a rare does the same, there's ZERO impact. If a white mob decides to drop a same tier map, there's zero impact. When a boss drops a +2, zero impact. Yeah, those other drops are great, but in the end you'll hit your wall a little less than a tier higher. The really good feeling of "wow I got that because I completed my Atlas" won't be there.

I'd much rather they dumped the mob cap of +0, +1 and +2 for whites, rares/magics, and bosses. Then when the boss drops a +2 and it gets upgraded to +3 you KNOW how you got that map. When a normal mob drops a +1, a magic/rare mob drops a +2, all of this will give you a sence of satisfaction from completing bits of your Atlas. I feel like this is a vital piece missing from their current plan.
How Fusings Work: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/38585/page/3#p1451934

IGN: TheHammer
Last edited by TehHammer on Aug 29, 2016, 1:11:14 PM
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Nephalim wrote:
GGG, we still need a reliable guaranteed way to make maps harder while increasing their rewards.
Zana should be able to master craft hard affixes for quantity or pack size bonuses using chaos orbs.

Vaal orbs in many cases do nothing or brick the map in a way that your build can not do. Sextants are good first step but we need better more robust options.

So far, risky maps have very little gains over far riskier ones due to how totally rng quant/pack size are in determining what maps drop and the rest of the time you've burned out your vaal orb reserves on duds.


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This has the potential to be really good. Since we got the whole white-yellow-red map tier system, I've always felt a bit bad whenever I actually ran my red maps knowing that it was very likely to brick on the payout. Things got worse recently when the experience penalties were increased but the drop rate for red maps stayed as it was (as far as anyone knows).

Hopefully red maps won't feel like unicorns anymore...

--

In any case, what I hope is coming, and it was touched on the latest podcast with Lifting and Ziggy, is an overhaul to the map mods themselves. Despite them being redone somewhat recently, it's still not quite right -- the system still doesn't incentivize running hard maps nor does it pay out for doing so.

Rolling maps is a simple matter of rolling for pack size mods that aren't much of a problem for your build. Mods that make a map extra rippy -- hexproof, extra damage, extra damage as [element], more crits, etc. -- don't really do much in terms of IIQ and provide no pack size. You roll maps more for your build's ability to function in that map as opposed to weighing real risk vs. reward.

I like Ziggy's idea of having synergistic map mods cause exponential rewards. So, rolling both extra elemental damage and lower max resists would stack and provide a significant bonus. I also liked PT's idea that all map mods provide some small amount of pack size in order to make you want to run the hardest god damned maps you could. Maps with extra damage could also provide a little extra experience.

But, hey, the patch notes are coming in a couple days, so I guess we'll have to see what all has been done.


+1
IGN PPPPanddddaPPPPanicccc

still waiting for that 'Chris Wilson' - director's cut version
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TehHammer wrote:
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Dr_Green wrote:

Let's assume that you are actually mapping at your supposed wall doing a t11 map and that it is your highest map. You are killing a blue pack and the game decides it wants to drop a t11. Now without the map upgrade bonus you didn't make progress cause you are still stuck at t11 but with the bonus the game bow upgrades the drop to a t12 and you can run that t12 and have the chance at a t13 or 14.
You can formulate that scenario for every tier except 16, hence the bonus let's you progress through the map tiers alot faster at every tier. It won't just shift the wall by 1 to 2 tiers. It will also help you sustain the tier that you are at because every drop that was 1 tier below you will now be a drop of the tier you are at.
I know that the 100% map drop bonus would also do the things i outlined but you seem to be implying that the new bonus won't help with map sustain or progression at all which is ridiculous.

The problem is when the blue pack decides to drop a +1 or a rare does the same, there's ZERO impact. If a white mob decides to drop a same tier map, there's zero impact. When a boss drops a +2, zero impact. Yeah, those other drops are great, but in the end you'll hit your wall a little less than a tier higher. The really good feeling of "wow I got that because I completed my Atlas" won't be there.

I'd much rather they dumped the mob cap of +0, +1 and +2 for whites, rares/magics, and bosses. Then when the boss drops a +2 and it gets upgraded to +3 you KNOW how you got that map. When a normal mob drops a +1, a magic/rare mob drops a +2, all of this will give you a sence of satisfaction from completing bits of your Atlas. I feel like this is a vital piece missing from their current plan.


While the first three sentences are absolutely true i disagree with the rest.

So i think that the chance of getting a +0 drop from a blue pack or a rare is at least as likely as getting a +1. I know that thats just an assumption but i think it's quite a reasonable one.
The way i am looking at is that if every one of my blue pack/rare mob +0 drops get turned in to +1 drops i at least doubled the amount of 1+ drops i'm getting.
Thats a huge differance and why i think that you will hardly hit a wall anymore at a about 100% of the map tier bonus.(assuming you are still rolling your maps propperly)
Y'all really seem to be something special. The tier increase is not impacted by "monster cap" If your white mob can only drop a +0 tier which lets say your on a tier 5 map. then it could drop up to a tier 5 map. with the bonus it's now dropping up to a tier 5 map +1-2. This goes on to apply to your magic/rare and boss monsters, so whatever their usual max drop could be. PLUS +1-2 Tiers.
So if you get 100% bonus, you can never find T1 maps any more?

Or does the bonus only work when playing in maps?
Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756
Nice change, I much prefer this new system over the old one.




And to the naysayers thinking this system is somehow a change for the worse:


What would you prefer, 1.5 Tier X maps, or 1 Tier X+1 map? Cuz that's the real comparison, for the most part. 125% more map drops combined with the 33% nerf to the base drop rate will result in 1.5x as many maps of all the same tiers on average, while the 125% with the new system will result in the same number of maps but with a general trend of higher tiers (won't quite be 1.25 tiers higher cuz the monsters still cap the highest type that can drop). I would MUCH rather have 1 map of a given tier than 1.5 maps of the tier below it, and the vendors agree (it'd take 3 of those 'tier below' maps to make a map of that 'given tier').



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innervation wrote:
Basically, take your map pool at its best sustained level in Prophecy. Then shift it up 1.25 tiers. I like the look of that.


Well then good news! It's actually better than that, even.

From the perspective of running a single map (or only ever running t16s), that is indeed roughly what it would look like, shifting the tiers up by ~1 (it wouldn't actually be 1.25, cuz +2 drops would stay +2, +1 drops from non-bosses would stay +1, +0 maps from white monsters or containers would stay +0, not all maps would move up)

However, when you step back and look at it from the perspective of running many (non-t16) maps, the bonus compounds itself into something better still. Say you run a t7 map, and on average with a given amount of iiq that would normally drop a couple +0 maps (so t7s). Well, now with a high bonus, instead you're seeing a couple +1 maps... which means you can now advance on to t8s. And those t8s have a better chance to drop t9s. So then you can advance to t9s more easily, where t10s will have a better chance to drop than before... it just keeps going.

In the long run it doesn't just shift the average player's map pool up by a tier or so (compared to pre-2.4), it goes beyond that, because now you're able to run higher tier maps more consistently, which this bonus compounds into those maps dropping higher tiers more frequently, so you can run EVEN HIGHER tiers more consistently, rinse and repeat...

...yeah, it's gonna be good.
Last edited by Shppy on Aug 29, 2016, 4:07:37 PM
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dudiobugtron wrote:
So if you get 100% bonus, you can never find T1 maps any more?

Or does the bonus only work when playing in maps?




Think the bonus only applies to the atlas of worlds map, so if it becomes an issue of getting T1 maps in maps, one can farm in +act2 merciless to get the T1 maps to drop.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016

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JohnNamikaze wrote:
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dudiobugtron wrote:
So if you get 100% bonus, you can never find T1 maps any more?

Or does the bonus only work when playing in maps?




Think the bonus only applies to the atlas of worlds map, so if it becomes an issue of getting T1 maps in maps, one can farm in +act2 merciless to get the T1 maps to drop.


Yeah, I realized after I asked the same question, that it will be impossible to get tier 1 maps, in maps, because even in tier 1 maps, tier 2's can drop, but similarly to it not giving you +3 maps from map bosses, it still won't give you T2+ in Merc, as those simply aren't part of the drop table for those areas.
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Nauzhror wrote:
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JohnNamikaze wrote:
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dudiobugtron wrote:
So if you get 100% bonus, you can never find T1 maps any more?

Or does the bonus only work when playing in maps?




Think the bonus only applies to the atlas of worlds map, so if it becomes an issue of getting T1 maps in maps, one can farm in +act2 merciless to get the T1 maps to drop.


Yeah, I realized after I asked the same question, that it will be impossible to get tier 1 maps, in maps, because even in tier 1 maps, tier 2's can drop, but similarly to it not giving you +3 maps from map bosses, it still won't give you T2+ in Merc, as those simply aren't part of the drop table for those areas.



Check the initial description of the new system, Chris says the type of monster will still limit the tier of map it can drop. So white monsters in t1 maps can still only drop t1 maps.
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Nauzhror wrote:
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JohnNamikaze wrote:
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dudiobugtron wrote:
So if you get 100% bonus, you can never find T1 maps any more?

Or does the bonus only work when playing in maps?




Think the bonus only applies to the atlas of worlds map, so if it becomes an issue of getting T1 maps in maps, one can farm in +act2 merciless to get the T1 maps to drop.


Yeah, I realized after I asked the same question, that it will be impossible to get tier 1 maps, in maps, because even in tier 1 maps, tier 2's can drop, but similarly to it not giving you +3 maps from map bosses, it still won't give you T2+ in Merc, as those simply aren't part of the drop table for those areas.



Check the initial description of the new system, Chris says the type of monster will still limit the tier of map it can drop. So white monsters in t1 maps can still only drop t1 maps.

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