Changes to the Labyrinth

Batmanf0re wrote:
Damn, I hate lab. It's the most annoying part of the game by a huge margin. The part that bugs me isn't Izaro or the bit about having to start over if you die even though the lab is long. The part that isn't fun and frustrates me are those traps that screw you over. Moving around traps like that is cool for Crash Bandicoot but just isn't meant for a top-down game where you click to move. That's just my take although I've heard many others say that the traps are the factor that makes it not fun.

Avoid the traps maybe? They have a sequence/pattern. If you stop for a second and look at what they are doing. There is always a safe spot within reach of not taking damage at all in every heavy trap area, sometimes two or three.
The thing that bothers me is that it doesn't seem to be a big difference mechanical difference between Merciless and Cruel labyrinths, but outside of that, nice changes.
Add a Forsaken Masters questline
JNF wrote:
Whoever developed the lab should be forced to run it over...and over...and over...and...

because the people who designed/developed the lab didn't play the game at all to get a feel for it. check every little aspect of it.. run to areas over and over and over to test out bugs/fixes and changes.
You abosolutely have to make somce changes to the RNG of the end game labyrinth enchants. After 300 runs in a season and 0 useful enchants for your build you kind of always end up giving up and force yourself to buy an item with the enchant you need ( if it even is for sale... ). This problem scales up 100 times when you run SSF. At least let us select a category of enchants after inserting the item.


A list after inserting the item that lets you select between:

Melee skill enchant
Magic skill enchant
Aura/Curse skill enchant
All skill gem enchants(for those that want the full rng experience)

This will lower the rng to a decent level and still would require plenty of runs to get the correct one.

I hope in 3.0 the 'labyrinth' becomes a thru labyrinth and do generated every run instead of one layout per day.

If not - I hope you stop calling that presets a 'labyrinth' =\
E = mc^(OMG)/wtf
you should of just removed it, it's nothing more then a cancer to the game and is what made me quit coming back to the new expansions.
With all the negative posts, those who enjoy the lab needs to speak up.

I enjoy it. It is one of the things in the game you actually get rewarded for paying attention and not just netflixing your way though.

For those who have issues with traps. Slow down? Stop trying to use (insert movement skill) to win your way past them. When i run labs with people or to help them get things done, most of the deaths are because they just blinding run through them. Trap mechanics are built around (look for safe spot, then move) not (run through and hope I get lucky). Follow these words and life will be easier.

For those who have issues with Boss fights. He does some mechanic you avoid, then spend 1-3 seconds spamming damage kill.. he does mechanic you avoid ... then spend 1-3 seconds spamming damage skill. Its really not hard again you just have to pay attention.

If you guys can follow this simple guide here, you can quickly go back to your 1 2 3 4 5, right click, movement skill strands.
The problem with Labyrinth wasn't that the earlier difficulties took too long (they didn't), the problem with Labyrinth was that it's just not fun. I can already tell you that someone in your design meeting saw complaints about Lab and said, "Why don't we make it more incremental so that it feels like it's building up to Uber Lab?". That person is dumb.

The trash sections of Lab need to be completely different (eg, removed entirely) because trash and traps aren't very fun and they aren't very challenging. Some people die to them, sure (I have), and it's ended HC runs I'm sure. That isn't a justification for keeping it. Lab would be much better if it was Izaro 3 times, with 3 random challenges and with the random ability for Izaro to summon Argus to help him. The challenges should be more mechanically difficult and deal more with "adding the time" required for GGG to feel good about an Uber Lab run. They also don't need to build on what Izaro can "do", we know he's got giga attacks, the challenges can be more about solving a puzzle while being attacked, or playing some type of memory game. Solving the puzzle moves you to the next fight, solving it without failure gets you the key.

GGG, I do like the change of maze length in early versions. This will make it much easier for new players as the length between boss fights is a significant part of the challenge of the labyrinth.

Personally, though, the only thing that needed to be changed in labs are the boss fights themselves. I would gladly take a removal of all rewards other than ascending in exchange for a significant drop in the challenge of the boss, especially since I find that (as a largely solo self-found player of modest skill) I have to out-level the content by about four acts to reliably beat it and the rewards and enchantments are completely useless by that point. If I got zero loot for a 25% less damaging boss or no active traps in the first two boss encounters it would be a win-win as all I wanted was the class anyway.

edit 2: perhaps players in groups or who aren't self-found are more who you are intending this content for, though. I'll admit I am shooting myself in the foot a bit by not trading (with some exceptions involving some necro gear and an aura helm) and by not bothering to party up.

edit: in case you can't tell, I'm talking about adding an option to reduce reward amounts, not scraping the rewards entirely. Players who want the rewards should be able to opt to pursue them, I just couldn't be bothered. It could be added as an option before each boss room, but I suppose any suggestion that requires more work will have to be weighed against the cost in effort.
We are never so offensive as when we are being defensive. (-me?)
Last edited by Grollip on May 15, 2017, 10:23:05 PM
Labs suck, if they're here to stay can you at least shorten them down some!


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