Changes to the Labyrinth

not bad
2019 and I still hate the lab.
Being toxic in the forums is fine, but pointing out someone is being toxic gets your post nuked and a stern talking to from Support.
Even after changes to make it less of a pain in the ass lab is still boring and annoying.

From a lore perspective, it is odd that to access prestige classes you don't do anything connected to the main game. Instead, you play a repetitious platform minigame that is identical for all prestige classes. That may be cost efficient. But, it's also lazy, uninspired, non-immersive design.
Now that prestige classes will finally leave lab in 4.0, will GGG get it right this time or will they find new ways to repeat old mistakes?
Last edited by EnjoyTheJourney on Mar 14, 2019, 2:01:34 PM
I'm glad to come in and see that other people are just as over Lab as I am.

When I first came back to the game, I hated Lab, because I thought it was really hard. Once I got the hang of Lab, I realized two things.

1) Learn how to properly move, and there are VERY few traps / saws / posts / explodey things that are actually hard to deal with.

2) the mechanics surrounding the Lab are just... Boring, and not fun. Needing to continue to run trials so that you can continue to grind for head enchants, in a vain effort to actually get the head enchant you want is just not efficient in leagues, and the only time that it matters is Standard, but GGG is doing it's best to make Standard a Dumpster Fire that they don't want people to play.

Someone suggested making the Lab Enchants craftable. That'd be neat. If you run the lab, and get a head enchant, it's now learned, and counts as something that you can craft from the bench seems like an awesome idea on the start, but it REALLY isn't going to matter much, as there are so many head enchants, with more being added each time, it's just not worth it to learn them. Short of getting a few specific head enchants, you aren't even going to be able to trade the crafting services to get people to care.

With all the work that has been done to make the Atlas feel interesting each new league (at the expense of Standard League), you would think that at some point, they would do something with Lab.

Personally? I'd love it if Lab were 3-5 rooms, and then the entire Izaro fight at once. People aren't running Lab because it's fun. They're running it because it's FORCED.

Couple that with the idea that it's forced hardcore style content on non hardcore players, and it's just a bizarre enigma stuck in the game. Since I wasn't playing the game when Lab was released, was there more Lore about why the Lab exists, or why Izaro is this thing, that matters?

I like the idea of the ascendency "classes", and the idea of further customization. I like the idea of the enchants. I'm just tired of running Lab. I have two options.

Speed Run, and not bother really killing / looting / bothering, and ZERO amount of "only drops here gear" would get me to deviate from this, because I'm going for Enchants, because I don't have the time to full clear it.

Somehow, block out a larger amount of time, where I'm not going to be disturbed by family, and also be ok with not being able to trade with anyone, so that I can go around and look for more treasure keys, more loot, and do close to a full clear.

I guess, the TLDR would be: Lab as forced content, and in it's current iteration is just another thing forced on the player (especially while leveling), that isn't actually fun to run.
signonthe and shoju, thank you for voicing your opinions on the boring and not fun labyrinth in the loved game PoE. I've added your names to players voicing similar opinions to the list now at 1021 names long. That includes 125 or 126 names from just this thread alone! As the list grows longer our voice grows stronger. Over 410 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1020 posters in support
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will apparently eventually implement a different method for ascension. Yippee!
For me it's the one-life nature of Lab that's off-putting. It's infuriating working my way through Uberlab for half an hour and then dying (usually from carelessness) and being back to square one.

I have thoughts on a solution to this - and apologies if someone else has said this elsewhere but I read Regulator's OP here (excellent btw) and a 750-something page thread is too long to read through just for this purpose:

1) Have a treasure key drop with every Izaro fight. If you die in the Lab, rather than ending the attempt you are given the choice to spend a treasure key to restore you at the last checkpoint. If you die before 1st Izaro then at least you haven't spent ages to get nowhere.

2) Make the Basilica Stones next to doorways the checkpoints. Either touch them like you would a Standing Stone or walk within an AoE to trigger them, and make them shine so you know they've been activated.

3) Continue to accrue treasure keys in the other ways like killing Argus, emperor boxes, additional keys dropping from final Izaro because you've paid attention to gaining his buffs, etc. Even if you don't go for the extra keys, having the possibility of a minimum of 3 treasure boxes for making it through on 1 life could make the lab feel more worthwhile. If you spent time in the lab searching for other keys and ended up with 7 or 8 at the end then this is a way to reward you for doing so.

Incidentally, I'm a fan of receiving AC points at levels 30-50-70-90 if there were to be a feature in the main story where you would run a short but random gauntlet - maybe from the Lab Plaza in Act 3 Sarn Encampment? - in order to pick your Ascendancy. Not 1 life per attempt though. That leads to Rage. Mine mostly.

Edit: I just read up the list and realised I appear to posting on signonthe's coattails with this. Apologies, wasn't intended.
Last edited by excaliwag on Apr 21, 2019, 2:30:11 AM
Last edited by Entropic_Fire on Jun 5, 2019, 10:21:50 AM
Last week someone asked me to help them with lab, he was herald summoner with about a dozen assorted minions and decent move speed.

As we approached the first Izaro room, he stood outside and said "I don't usually go in, so I don't die". I figured somehow the instance would not let him progress unless he at least went inside, so I went in, and waited. And waited. And dodged, and ducked, and zigged and zagged, but he still didn't come in. "You coming?" I asked. "No need, will meet you in basilica, hurry pls I have hw to do"

Lather rinse repeat at the second Izaro room. Okay, so there's an exploit where you don't even have to go in and wave hello, you just proceed to the next checkpoint as if you had gone in and done your duty.

Third Izaro room, last chance. I thought surely, out of basic balance, the game engine would not let him bypass the final boss fight. I went in, and he... stood outside again and said "hrry plz sorry I need to be done with this"

Izaro went down. Keys sprayed all over the room. I began picking up some stuff and he barged in and swooped up the keys before I could even turn around.

I believe this is one of the few games I've played where a fundamental character upgrade is not gated by a basic test of viability.

In other games, even if you don't deal any damage, you are expected to at least be in the room with the boss present, and by extension, be able to survive if the boss randomly directs an attack your way.

Some of the problems we're seeing with minmax and clearspeed might be better addressed by fixing gatekeepers such as lab and Innocence, rather than nerfing good spells and skills into the marianas trench.

I'm not saying we should punish minmax speed racer builds for not being able to solo Izaro. But those builds should be strongly encouraged to minmax a little less, by challenging them with content that forces them to diversify their stats a little.

And lab carry should not mean "you magically bypass all the trials and skip ahead to the ascendancy and all the keys". It should at least entail all party members in the room with the boss each time; whether you facetank or whether you go hide in a corner is up to you but at least it requires thought.

It's funny though this guy had decent minion damage and all he would have needed to do was point the zombies/Harold/specs in the right direction, and snipe from various vantage points around the room, staying out of smackdown range.
"How do you lure the Elder to the centre of the Atlas?"
"A box trap with some candy should do the trick"
Make lab shorter, delete some rooms and make all rooms shorter + add options to sell/save enchantment mods into crafting bench!
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crunkatog wrote:
In other games, even if you don't deal any damage, you are expected to at least be in the room with the boss present, and by extension, be able to survive if the boss randomly directs an attack your way.

generally, you just need to be in the instance of a boss. same with shaper and uber elder and everything else like regular map bosses or liches. sometimes the instance is just a room like regular elder, but in most cases you can wait outside the arena.

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