[3.12*] For Scion - Ngamahu's Flame Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam (End Game Viable)

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RagnarokChu wrote:
I actually question fire penetration as a link, even more so if you have Xoph's neck. (as an perma option instead of a swap if the enemy as extra fire resist).

Fire pen on weapon (20%) + 9% from flamability (level 20/21) is already 29%. Lava lash is already 8% fire pen (not sure if it works on molten burst or not).

37% fire pen almost completely covers most guardian's + shaper, and you get another 10% if you have the necklace.

Then there are side options such as staying Elementalist for the 6% pen (and if you hate reflect, or I presume if you go the crit/EO version you can grab all of the elemental pen on the right side of the tree. Or flask as the wise oak.

This is mostly just theorycrafting since if you can replace fire pen with something you can prob kill shaper even faster from molten burst if it's not needed.

Other options if fire pen isn't 100% needed all the time -

Red:
Life Gain on Hit - Allows you to skip vaal pact maybe?
Added fire damage - Easy swap in for potentinally more damage

Green:

Point blank - save 2 points
faster/slower proj - damage





Bosses resists doesn't stop at 0 res u can make them have -xx resist and taking even more fire dmg then, thats why Fire Pen is great.


@Ezevade

You would need to invest in crit if u want go Acuity leech anyways.
Scion seems like nice choice it seems now, still not sure if i should try to go for EO or RT gonna be just fine. Should start making my Scion soon.

I prefer speed however so would drop one flask for quickislver for mapping, probably Lion's Roar since its annoyinh to push mobs away from molten bursts.

btw. what u think about darkray vector's? we gain +2 frenzy and corrupted one shouldn't be that expensive
Last edited by Hejti on Aug 30, 2017, 7:09:08 PM
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RagnarokChu wrote:
I actually question fire penetration as a link, even more so if you have Xoph's neck. (as an perma option instead of a swap if the enemy as extra fire resist).

Fire pen on weapon (20%) + 9% from flamability (level 20/21) is already 29%. Lava lash is already 8% fire pen (not sure if it works on molten burst or not).

37% fire pen almost completely covers most guardian's + shaper, and you get another 10% if you have the necklace.

Then there are side options such as staying Elementalist for the 6% pen (and if you hate reflect, or I presume if you go the crit/EO version you can grab all of the elemental pen on the right side of the tree. Or flask as the wise oak.

This is mostly just theorycrafting since if you can replace fire pen with something you can prob kill shaper even faster from molten burst if it's not needed.

Other options if fire pen isn't 100% needed all the time -

Red:
Life Gain on Hit - Allows you to skip vaal pact maybe?
Added fire damage - Easy swap in for potentinally more damage

Green:

Point blank - save 2 points
faster/slower proj - damage





Bosses resists doesn't stop at 0 res u can make them have -xx resist and taking even more fire dmg then, thats why Fire Pen is great.


@Ezevade

You would need to invest in crit if u want go Acuity leech anyways.
Scion seems like nice choice it seems now, still not sure if i should try to go for EO or RT gonna be just fine. Should start making my Scion soon.

I prefer speed however so would drop one flask for quickislver for mapping, probably Lion's Roar since its annoyinh to push mobs away from molten bursts.

btw. what u think about darkray vector's? we gain +2 frenzy and corrupted one shouldn't be that expensive



I was absolutely considering buying those boots but i gotta figure out how to manage my resistances once i buy them. Just consider that every frenzy charge is ~40k dps increase in effective combat
NVM got it thanks @Enwood for the help!
Last edited by Dorrian on Aug 30, 2017, 10:58:10 PM
Somewhat new to the POE scene and was hoping to try this out. I've seen some Marauder ngamahu's builds floating around that seem to really prioritize Kaom's heart. Is this a huge bonus for this build as well, and what are the benefits to rolling scion over marauder for a ngamahu's build?
Last edited by Essenix13 on Aug 30, 2017, 10:53:43 PM
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Essenix13 wrote:
Somewhat new to the POE scene and was hoping to try this out. I've seen some Marauder ngamahu's builds floating around that seem to really prioritize Kaom's heart. Is this a huge bonus for this build as well, and what are the benefits to rolling scion over marauder for a ngamahu's build?

Scion entire power is flexibility with her ascendancy and positioning ability in the tree. Which isn't too pronounced in this build but you generally choose between 2 out theses 3 sub ascendancy.

Elementalist (elemental peneration, extra golem, basically immune to relfect), Raider (move fast + boss killing with frezny charges), Champion (free tankiness)

Berserker ascendancy overall is much easier to play though.

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Also why is champion + raider preferred over Elementalist + raider.

You get the extra pen, Golem and reflect immune which are huge qol or damage upgrades, on top of +40 int which is a massive help to the build. Only thing you have to do is upkeep fortify through ground slam instead of it being automatically.

If we attached fortify to cyclone instead of another damage gem, it shouldn't be that much of a big damage loss since we use two attacks to kill monsters (the cyclone and molten burst, so only one of them loses a bit of damage). Which damage should be made up by the 6% pen + extra fire golem and easier jewel gearing with the +40 int.
Last edited by RagnarokChu on Aug 30, 2017, 11:33:58 PM
@RagnarokChu

Going Raider Ele we lose free Fortify and 30% more dmg while Fortify is active. Then we need to drop Added Fire for Fortify and its around 100k Cyclone DPS loss vs Shaper, there is no way that additional golem and 6%pen can make up for it.

40 INT shouldn't be that hard to get and Opal with INT aren't that expensive now since HoWA isn't played rly.
Last edited by Hejti on Aug 30, 2017, 11:59:56 PM
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Dorrian wrote:
Hi, I had a question Im at the Skill Tree - Level 55 part in leveling what part of the tree should I go for first? bottom going Point Blank and Iron Grip or head to Resolute Technique? Thanks so much.

I see that you have re-spec to the new changes. :)

Check out the flask and recommended rares section. The flasks are important for your survival.

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question is when i remove the craft for physical what ring would be east to go with thanks






I like the rolls on Rune Hold better. You can reroll the lightning damage to fire or physical.

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@Hejtero and @Ezevade, nice exchange over there. :)

I took @Kitaen's pastebin and with @Ezvade's pastebin, made some adjustment to compare their Shaper dps at level 100.

Kitaen's Shaper Cyclone DPS: POB Pastebin
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With Life is Always Full, DPS vs Shaper: 747421
Without Life is Always Full, DPS vs Shaper: 498278

Average DPS vs Shaper: 622849

NOTE: Kitaen's setup loses Fortify's damage mitigation.

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Replacing Damage on Full Life with Added Fire,

DPS vs Shaper: 677658

Added Fire will provide a more consistent damage.

Ezevade's Shaper Cyclone DPS: POB Pastebin
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DPS vs Shaper: 677812

Damage is consistent vs Shaper and retain Fortify's damage mitigation.

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Replacing Added Fire with Damage on Full life,

DPS on full life: 749544
DPS without full life: 499874

Average DPS: 624709

Both pastebin have very similar life pool for a fairer comparison. However, Kitaen's skill tree have more damage nodes.

EDIT: Updated Ezevade's pastebin data. Didn't realise the gems level are lower than Kitaen's pastebin. Fixed that.

EDIT 2: Replaced Added Fire with Damage on Full life gem for Scion since Vaal Pact provide higher full life uptime.

Last edited by kira1414 on Aug 31, 2017, 5:09:52 AM
How valuable is devo devoation helm if you're using the Bronn's Lithe chest (which lacks defensive stats, but gives you ton of attack speed/movement speed). If you don't need the dex then it might be overall in some offensive stats. Instead of 15% attack speed/20 Movement speed you might be able to wear:

Starkonja's Head:

Trade in movement speed for 100 life

Heretic's Veil:
Can run a 2nd curse for even more damage/defensive (flame + ele weakness or defensive curse, or even more life leech with warlords)

The Tempest's Binding
Super support totem + some decent stats + harbringer buff

Generic super tank helm + resist/other stats:
This will deal with the lack of defensive stats on the chest, allowing you to easily get an enchant on the helm + fill in stats/resist you may need on other slots/jewels for easier gearing.

For "budget" builds this is by far the best choice instead of devo + belly/carcass jack ect.
Last edited by RagnarokChu on Aug 31, 2017, 6:44:20 AM
Why do you take "Tireless" hp cluster between marauder and templar area?
It's just 4% hp per point (IMO reduced skills manacost is not an issue at all)
We can grab some 5% hp nodes around the tree and have the same 20% overoll hp with one saved skillpoint
Also there is some combined 4% hp + resist/armor and "Hired killer" hp cluster near scion area (4.66% hp per skillpoint) and "Thick skin" hp cluster near "Point blank" (4.5% hp per skillpoint)


PS: Very cheap build with Hoph's blood makes me cry :(
Last edited by listLogic on Aug 31, 2017, 7:27:45 AM
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listLogic wrote:
Why do you take "Tireless" hp cluster between marauder and templar area?
It's just 4% hp per point (IMO reduced skills manacost is not an issue at all)
We can grab some 5% hp nodes around the tree and have the same 20% overoll hp with one saved skillpoint
Also there is some combined 4% hp + resist/armor and "Hired killer" hp cluster near scion area (4.66% hp per skillpoint) and "Thick skin" hp cluster near "Point blank" (4.5% hp per skillpoint)


PS: Very cheap build with Hoph's blood makes me cry :(


I found myself losing mana on longer fights like shaper faster than i was getting it back from leech. So while not an issue for mapping i cant imagine doing extremely tanky bosses without Tireless.

You can absolutely clear most content without Xoph's.

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