Trade Manifesto

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Redreaper21 wrote:
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Snorkle_uk wrote:
yeah they are.

No they aren't. It's why this poe.trade copycat was created in the first place




its the same thing, it doesnt change the enjoyment its just more stable to have their own one that is under their control.



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Redreaper21 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:
price fixers are mainly in currency vs currency trade where imo they should put a proper auction house, in item trades for gear theres little price fixing and its easy to spot and not get caught spending any significant time messaging those people.

Wrong. There is plenty of price manipulating in items too, and it's one of the reasons it makes searching things on poe.trade so tedious. Bots will undercut items even in very tiny amounts to bait people into posting theirs for cheaper. Even a 1c orb profit per trade is worth it when you have a bot running trades for you all day. It's also a way to take advantage of newer players who don't know how to value their stuff.



its minimal comapred to currency trades. You can easily spot if the first few items are lowball prices put up to downplay the market, noobs get caught yes, anyone with experience can see it. Its not a significant time problem for regular traders. Ive traded way more in this game than you have, I know whats up with the current trade situation and what its like to buy and sell items all day, im not in the dark here on an area you understand.




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Redreaper21 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:
But you can find upgrades if ur only finding gear, if u trade for gear thats better than u can expect to find in a reasonable time frame then of course almost all the gear you find will be garbage in comparison. Thats an inescapable reality of taking part in trade.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here. "Garbage in comparison"? People trade in the first place because otherwise they will have to spend dozens of hours grinding hoping to find just the tiniest gear improvement for a particular slot, because most items are straight up garbage with affix combos that are not a single build uses.


If the items theyre finding are garbage then garbage can be an upgrade. They have to have found something good in order to need to find something good to be an upgrade. My point is very simple and the logic of it speaks for itself so maybe just read it again and try to understand it.




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Redreaper21 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:
Go play a game like D3 where the drop a ton of bis gear on you very rapidly and tell me how many hours u can play that game and have fun. Why are you here? Why are you not there?

Because this game is free and the other isn't?



youre telling me you would rather play diablo 3 but cant afford a copy? I would suggest going out and spending an hour or 2 grinding irl and treating yourself to Diablo if its the game you really want to play.

See you back here in a month when youve run it dry and understand why longevity matters in a loot game.




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Redreaper21 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:
A extremely high variance loot system with a time and effort sink trade system is what gives this game the capacity to be played for as many hours as its given me and still having room to play as many again in the future, so yeah, if players dont realise the truth in this then its on them and their lack of perspective.

Lolno, what the "varied" loot system does is artificially extend the grind



the entire game is artificial, everything in it was designed to give players a play experience that lasts a given amount of time, in this case as much as humanly possible. The game is based around grinding, thats what endgame focused args are about, grinding, did the name of the company not give that away? The whole point is to grind, the objective of the devs is to give us as much grind time as possible so that however long we want to play for the game has got the legs to match our appetite. I feel like what Im saying should be pretty obvious, not sure how Im in a conversation where this sort of thing needs explained.

I didnt say varied btw, i said high variance, as in the difference between a shit item, an average item and a perfect item is extremely large. The longevity of a loot hunt is proportional to the size of this variance, so is the potential value of items and the feeling of satisfaction in finding a really good item. PoE is all about maximizing these aspects, if that doesnt sound like a game for you then you came to the wrong place. I think it does though, I think you like this game but you just dont really appreciate why, the mechanics under the hood that are making it the best arpg out there, which was the initial point I made that you challenged. People love this game, thats why it has such success, why the player base keeps growing, why people who have played insane amounts of hours are still here excited to play more. Sometimes the devs get a bit out of touch, not every decision is a great decision, but I think its hard to fault the logic of their stance in this manifesto. Ive read it and Ive read every reply and I think all the people arguing against it have yet to come up with an argument against it that really makes sense.
Nice to know, but nothing new. Trading site looks good. Sections for items are too big but you have done that in purpose to make it more-eye-candy and less functional.

Great work on API, well done, but yours trade site is deja-vu.

I like the game very, very much, but trade sucks and it sucks big time.
Do not hide behind 'automation will destroy everything'.

Just imagine that you had to use in game trade system for support credits or even better, switch micro-transactions to cash-only and pay-in-person and then you can say that automation is evil!

I still like the game and dislike any reason for making trade system bad.

Automation is bad, stop making anything for computers it is automation after all!

I do acknowledge that making things automated will speed up trade and trade-bots/apps will become issue (in time), prices will most likely go down (or even up for some things).
So far you have affected prices of items by reducing or increasing drop rates or changing item stats. But never you have increased (at least not noticeably) prices of items when sell to a vendor and like that protecting lowest price - like for tabula - it will always worth divine :)

There is a great mechanics in game for currency (it is also a crafting resource). With masters you have made more usefulness for almost every currency.

But limiting players to waste time in trade is outrages.
How many times have you contacted a player (who offer best price) to find out that he(or she) is only trying to manipulate price?
Not to mention that you can not do anything about it (dont even talk about Cadiro scams - which are not scams because you have invited other side ...)

sad, sad, very, very, sad.

bottom line, game is excellent, maybe even best of best, but trade system ... does not deserve that name!
I forgot one very important thing (at least for me),

this game more and more looks resembles gambling ...

Every player depends on chance ... for loot, for crafting, for map mods, for item mods, for moods of those who change drop rates day by day, for trade ...
in fact I can not name an aspect in this game which is not related to gambling.

Less and less I do like it, but more and more I find myself gambling in this game with my time ...

Only one group of players is exception to gambling / chancing rule, but I bet (again gambling) you already know who ...
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matachuk wrote:
I forgot one very important thing (at least for me),

this game more and more looks resembles gambling ...

Every player depends on chance ... for loot, for crafting, for map mods, for item mods, for moods of those who change drop rates day by day, for trade ...
in fact I can not name an aspect in this game which is not related to gambling.

Less and less I do like it, but more and more I find myself gambling in this game with my time ...

Only one group of players is exception to gambling / chancing rule, but I bet (again gambling) you already know who ...



GGG = Gamble Gamble Gamble!

Seems like GGG's new philosophy with their pushing of the loot boxes, which I detest with all my being.



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Chris wrote:
Items are a player's reward for playing Path of Exile.


No no no no no! Being able to play the game (and progress) is the reward for trading.

And since I dont trade I cant progress and I quit very soon after the new league starts. It is the exact opposite of what you want me (and I dare say the majority of your players) to do.
Ascension tied to Lab is the worst thing GGG has done...apart from GGG's philosophy on Trading. Oh and Gambling Loot boxes. And selling out to tencent.

I used to love GGG. I supported to ensure GGG remained independent, now I just wish I could get my money back. -_-
Last edited by Chameleon on Nov 3, 2017, 10:55:11 PM
First impression compared to poe.tade

wanted to find a ring with high cold / light attack damage:

http://poe.trade/search/sametaurikasin

The "total" entry was not available.



My personal opinion is, though I like you create a kind of poe.trade, I would wish me a stronger cooperation with the strong community. There is no need to develop almost the same thing many times espacially when it takes rougly one year. I mean where will this end? You want to make next a second "path of building". I do not see a need for this. Just tweak the available tool if you feel a need to change it.


Heads up and wish u the best in future.
Awfull position about trading. Almost every day comming of other player kicks me to the login screen several times because I don't have ssd. Please just let the game load a bit more and give my pc time to load all that mtx shit or something and trade. If you are balancing your game around that stuff just do it properly for everyone.
And I'm not talking about the thing that wasting a tonn of time on poe.trade is not a gameplay.
Last edited by arcadnii on Nov 3, 2017, 11:43:12 PM
I really like the new interface, however I have a suggestion for you. I heavily suggest you to have a color code for the league in the drop down menu. This would reduce the amount of mistake the player will do while requesting a trade. For me, nothing is more frustrating than quitting a lab run or an important boss fight to sell an item to a player that is not in the right league.

Thanks to anyone taking the time to read this suggestion and have an excellent day!
"Knowing that a monster could drop something that improves your character is a great motivator for playing one more level!"

eh.. no... picking up and identifying half a billion items to find one that is half decent with the way the game is now is anything but fun..

if the stash was 12 times the size, items automatically identified when they dropped etc.. then MAYBE:. but the ratio of tolerable to absolute garbage is still WAY too high.. the only times I even bother to look at rare items now is if I'm doing recipes, they have 6s or if I need alteration shards..
mostly harmless
That manifesto is totally wrong, did any of you from GGG played game?
I dont think soo, because PoE imo has worst drop with worst RNG stats modifier what I saw till today in any game what i played, drop in PoE is not enjoyable because it is at the end stashing to make vendor recipes, identify of items is overrated. The real meaning of this is how the hell you can roll on item lvl84 stats like 10 armour, or 1-10 dmg, 10 es, etc, there needs to fix those rolls so we can talk around drop at all because item level need to have some low boundaries like cant roll -10lvl rolls or something like that.
If there is not vendor recipes for currency I think there will not exist trade at all or will be limited to less then 1% player base, how to trade with trash drop?
Jesus and when I read trash talk like "Easy trade means reducing drop rates" makes me to ask my self what is wrong with person who wrote that shit is he/she played this game at all or playing in some super rich god drop "chris lets play poe" mode like +10000% drop/rarity rate.

Manifesto is late 1st April joke.
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Chris wrote:
Most players who play Path of Exile never trade. Out of the players who do trade, most only complete a few trades in a league.


If trade is important, why do most players not do it? Surely if most of your playerbase skips entirely an important part of the game, that's a problem, and not a good thing?
Last edited by Kanil on Nov 4, 2017, 6:58:08 AM

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