Trade Manifesto

I personally think they should just get rid of trading. Honestly, this game was meant to be a grind and long. If one can't get through atlas within 3 months, they'll understand why its called League and not Standard. But, due to stash tabs and what not, that idea of trading going away can never happen, theoretically speaking.

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hdvlad wrote:
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tkots8080 wrote:
This manifest all wrong. Prove is CH POE.
trade is very simple click and buy and we are playing all league time not just 2 weeks.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you're a minority for sure. I bet if GGG has the guts to open a poll about the quality of the Trade System, it'd be a crushing majority saying it completely sucks.


HDVLad is right about that. I would love to see a Poll on the quality of the trade system. Whether you like the system or not, the majority of players have been seeking easier ways to trade and obtain items. We god damn drop filters for crying out loud. Players on youtube showing off their dope third party setups and countless of players loving to trade with bots.
Now whether adding an easier form of trading is good for the game? IMO as it stands now, not so much. For standard at least. With only a handful of players getting through late atlas every league (compared to the amount of characters created in league) I can see a slightly easier method of trading increasing the pool of players getting through mid-atlas.

Personally...
I rarely trade and I rarely do leagues. I don't do leagues because I am dog shit horrible with gear. There are zillions of pieces and tbh, trading could be super easy and my build would still suck balls cuz half the crap I can't afford, don't understand and I don't study gear like Omgitsjousis, "Salutations Exile". To bring the point home, I never played any other character past 40 besides a Necro.... such an easy class and I click less. I can save my clicking to pick up items. Necro the only class I was able to "one shot"... kill really really fast... Innocence. Felt so good....

Going back to filters and how the manifesto mentioned reducing drop rates. I wouldn't mind reducing the drop rate to .00001% with the amount of rare drops I see. (That'll be the 20 pieces of Abberath's Horns in my storage, yet I can't get one Tabula v_v). Imagine POE where normal and magic items are the norm during early end game and rare and unique are actually rare and unique. Aha, that'll be hilarious. (I seen necros and guardians beating shaper with just one 6 link wep so...)
I'm wondering. If somehow I'm not actually afk but tabbed out still being able to do the trades is there a way to notify me when i go in afk-mode so i can tab to poe and move a little or press a button manually?
Well, I'll try to make this short.

Do I like to trade? It's OK
Do I hate price fixers? Grrrrr
Have I chosen to be in a trade league? Yes, yes, yes
Do I every once in a while run into a nice person in trade? Occasionally
Do I choose to be a professional trader/flipper etc? Hell no
Do I try to be polite in trade? Yes
Do I try to limit my trades after the first few days of the league? Yes
Is trade a pain sometimes? Yes, but usually if I am trying to get a deal

Is trade in it's current form good enough? Yes, but it is up to the individual to learn how to do it efficiently with discipline.

Most of the strong stances people make against the "inconvenient trading" are likely because they have not played this game long enough and don't understand when to seriously limit their trading. I used to get annoyed (as most of us do on occasion) when we send out 15 messages in a row and get no response. Part of that falls on the player for being cheap. Just saying.
Last edited by MrWonderful99 on Sep 8, 2020, 4:48:07 AM
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MrWonderful99 wrote:
Well, I'll try to make this short.

Do I like to trade? It's OK
Do I hate price fixers? Grrrrr
Have I chosen to be in a trade league? Yes, yes, yes
Do I every once in a while run into a nice person in trade? Occasionally
Do I choose to be a professional trader/flipper etc? Hell no
Do I try to be polite in trade? Yes
Do I try to limit my trades after the first few days of the league? Yes
Is trade a pain sometimes? Yes, but usually if I am trying to get a deal

Is trade in it's current form good enough? Yes, but it is up to the individual to learn how to do it efficiently with discipline.

Most of the strong stances people make against the "inconvenient trading" are likely because they have not played this game long enough and don't understand when to seriously limit their trading. I used to get annoyed (as most of us do on occasion) when we send out 15 messages in a row and get no response. Part of that falls on the player for being cheap. Just saying.


Wanting to pay the price they ask for isn't being cheap
In a perfect world without price fixers, yes. But we have what we have and it is up to the individual to make good buying decisions and not to "expect" that a seller will jump out of a map to sell you that 1c or less item. Or in a mature league that 5c or less item.
Hello, as the text is large, I would like y'all to take a look at this post on Reddit. I did that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ipzp8m/idea_for_market_trade_its_not_an_ah_buy_now_button/

The "Consequences of Easy Trade" logic is very flawed imo..


1. "Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items." ... "because they can easily buy items that are close to what they need."

We can already buy items close to what we need. The trade filter options are amazing and let me get exactly what I need for what I can afford. The annoying part of trading in not really making me trade less often. It's just annoying and a total waste of time.

I do about 2 upgrade sessions per league. Except at start when I'm gearing up for free. I don't think that would change if trade was less annoying. But even if it did change who cares. If I want to upgrade more often then why not let me have that option. Are you control freaks?


2. Easy trade means reducing drop rates.

Trade is not "very difficult" as you say in your analogy. It's not like you have to walk across a city to trade in person. Trade is just annoying in some cases. It's often fast and easy. So why can't it always be that way? It makes no sense to leave in a flaw that sometimes makes the system work terrible in some situations.

I trade most low value items in bulk even with annoying trade system. Reducing the number of people who do what I do by making it annoying doesn't make sense. It just makes the game super easy for people like me and super hard for people with no patience and no tolerance for stupidity.

And, wouldn't making it easier actually just make things more worthless? Wouldn't that just make progression even harder and more challenging? And it would make things fair for everyone.


3. Easy trade allows for greater abuse.

The trade system doesn't have to be unlimited. You can set daily and hourly trade limits on some items perhaps. You can require captcha code entries. I wouldn't mind entering a captcha code if it prevents me from, on occasion, having to whisper 20 people who are busy. Like someone just suggested, a buy it now option on trade page, with a captcha code, would solve so many problems. There's so many solutions that I'm sure you can find something that works.


In conclusion, maybe the issue should be divided into two issues. Buying and selling. Maybe you should make it easy to buy but leave the difficulty in selling as is. However, knowing that the buying system is captcha safe might allow for a little easier selling and help even out player progression. Everyone gets a small return on items. Wouldn't that also make it easier to control drop rates?
Last edited by kokall on Sep 14, 2020, 10:35:40 PM
Firts af all: I apologize, english is not my native language.
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But I responsibly declare: the contribution of trading to the game cannot be diminished anymore!

Whether at first it was designed secondary or not, now it is a significant game within a game.

Trading has become an important part of PoE for a vast majority of players. Maybe the most important. It keeps them playing and playing alongside with other mechanichs.

And thus keepint the main concept of PoE: "This game is designed to be played forever"

Why?

If you've read Yu-Kai Chou's book about gamification you should know about Octalysis and what psychological drivers make people want to play.

And trading implements several of them (i.e. ownership, accomplishment, empowerment etc) independantly of new content.

Even if new leagues won't appear, many players will continue playing 'cause they are fond of hoarding currency, crafting, selling, buying and repeating it in a circle.

Then why is attitude to trading is still so condescending?

Chris's position "I'm the artist here and this is my vision. Period." annoys me afh.

If you create a game you want to be played by as many poeple as possible, you should listen to them.

The time has come to upgrade trading system and make it more convenient. Otherwise it is a shot in your own leg.
Maybe I'm wrong but I really hope the devs take the time to re-examine their original statements about the trade system. Triple check if the logic is sound. If the logic is based on facts and data or just supposition.

At the time, did they realize people would list many items for low prices that they never intend to actually trade for that price.

Adding a buy it now button solves this MAJOR issue and more.

I understand it might be tricky to do. You might have to ensure people have space for the currency they want in return for an item. But that seems like an easy check to do on the seller side as they set or change their selling prices.

Of course, I'm not taking the time to think of every angle. But I hope you can take the time and figure out a solution.

Like I said, sometimes it's great. Some items are just not spammed and sometimes people are not busy. I can live with it and work around it but I'd be real happy if you fixed it.
The opinion of a new player. My biggest issue with POE trading is I would spend a good chunk of time searching the website for items. After I find an item id go in game send a whisper and most of the time I would get no reply/price went up/afk. I went from excited to start trading on POE, to switching over to SSF. Im sure there are people out there who dont switch to SSF and just quit the game because of the trading system.

I understand the devs dont want to make it too easy. However the goal should be (not easy) because it requires thought. You dont want (not easy) because of frustrations completely out of your control. To compare it to a boss fight. A hard boss the requires thought is fun, a hard boss that has a 99% chance to kill you as you enter the arena is very hard but not fun.

An example of a trading system that would satisfy the wishes of the devs(it cant be too easy) but also satisfy the wishes of the players (It cant be too easy because it requires thought) would be an auction hall with these features.
Spoiler
Listing an Item:
The easy part:
You go to an auction hall/trading stash tab to drop off an item you set the reserve price (it can be 0) and set the currency you want in return.
The hard part:
The listing fee is (1) of the currency you are looking for in return. If the item sells the listing fee is refunded if the item doesnt sell the AH keeps the listing fee.

Placing a bid:
The easy part:
Go to an auction hall search for your item and place a hidden bid
The hard part:
All items will be listed for a set time (X hours) so you have to wait.
You must pay (1) of the currency the seller is looking for as a bid fee. The AH keeps the bid fee of the lowest and highest bidder, everyone else is refunded their fee.

A lot of different strategies will emerge that require multiple steps to sell an item for what you want, which is good it fits the (not easy) requirement.

This is all just a hypothetical system to show the difference between (not easy) because it requires thought and (not easy) because of frustration. Any real system implemented would make sure to have all loop-holes filled, and have anti-bot measures.

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