Delve Costing Changes

it is still considerably worse than it was before.

when will you fix it?
"
Chris wrote:

The place where this breaks down is for players whose map base is insufficient for the depth they are playing at. We were assuming that players were playing at approximately the equivalent depth in the mine that corresponded to the same difficulty in the atlas.

Community feedback so far suggests that we were wrong about this.



that moment when you forget that you gated the content that you based your other content gating on....

yeah, dont worry chris, happens to all of us #rollseyes






Let me explain something to you chris about why your game becomes shit, despite being so amazing in so many ways:


In an arpg theres content and gear, the content gets harder and harder and you require better and better gear to become powerful enough to be able to complete that content.

In poe you have decided to not only gate the gear, which you should be doing, but also gate all the harder content. Ok... somewhat questionable but ok, could work. You have then folded on the idea of gating player power, both through passives and gear. Gear now drops like candy, the idea of having gear as a reward has become a joke, items that used to be many exalts are now worth 1 chaos each on the market thanks to insanely buffed drop rates.

Gear good enough to smash the entire high end mapping system is now essentially free for traders, you can run the lowest tiers of maps for 2 hours and afford a full gear set that can destroy the highest tiers of maps. but you still cant access the highest tiers of maps. All dressed up with nowhere to go, you ever hear that phrase around here before?

Certain people are hitting 100 in what? 4 days now? While they are stupidly ahead of the pack, for reasons that are also terrible faults in your game, this is a trend too where a journeyman player can probably level up 10x faster in endgame than they could back in 2013, maybe 20x faster.

But youre still gating any content that could be anywhere near appropriate for these sort of characters. So you have a game where the power should be what we chase in order to beat the content, but instead you give the power away for free with levels, gear drop rates and ridiculous power creep across the spectrum, and then deny people content worth playing when they get that power. Cant you see how stupid this is? Youre so busy trying to gate content under the idea that its rewards are too powerful that youve forgot that everyone is stupidly over powered thanks to passives and gear not being gated nearly enough and the only thing that could possibly save your game is letting people access levels of content that could challenge the absurdity youve already let them become.

We need appropriate new endgame content we can log in and play for 10s, 100s, 1000s of hours, we dont need even more gated shit that doesnt provide a reason to log in tomorrow and spend 5 hours in poe. Delve should fit the bill perfectly, but once again you have fked up the reward system and subsequently the gating system as a result of the first mistake.









Heard there was a new manifesto on sulphate and that changes were being made, so I came back to read it. Your changes are garbage and the new content is still a complete waste of time, as is your game as a whole thanks to retarded power creep, neglect and lack of any fair, sustainable challenge or competition in your endgame. This isnt even remotely good enough to fix the issues of delve which in turn means delve isnt remotely good enough to fix the issues of poes endgame.

Stop adding rewards to content that mean you feel you cant let players play the content. Your xp mechanics are broken, your item drop mechanics are fucked beyond belief, fix them and stop gating players from playing meaningful content as a means to try and limit the damage being done by your idiotically balanced dysfunctional reward systems. This is a GAME people are supposed to PLAY it, when you wake up and remember that then maybe youll have a game worth actually playing again.

Hey guys our xp and item drop mechanics are really bad, how do we fix it? Well Tony, if we can find a way to make sure players dont play the game then they wont get too much loot and experience!

yeah, genius, well done guys. Why didnt any other devs think of this before?



Ask yourself how youve allowed this game to slip so far that Diablo 3, an absolute farce of a game, is now probably a better game than PoE in many essential areas. Gameplay, difficulty/challenge, balance, competitiveness, skill... What good is an amazing item system and build system constructed on top of the best arpg mechanics system ever made if the actual game they serve is a clickerheros ezclap lolfest piece of shit that actively stops players from playing the parts of it that are redeeming?



"
PopeJo wrote:
it is still considerably worse than it was before.



and worse still, it was diabolical to start with.
"
Iznuts wrote:
If you don't like doing maps then its probably time to take a break and find something else to play.


or maybe time for GGG to crawl out of their autistic windowlicking session and realise if they add exciting new endgame content that they can actually keep large parts of their player base who will otherwise do just that, leave the fking game and take their future supporter money with them?
"
PsOfOs wrote:
Spoiler
"
Synopse wrote:
Delve is designed to play it yourway, but as much as I understand complaints, here are some suggestions to deal with delve.

If you think, your delve is too expensive, delve more shallow. Playing one tier higher almost double your delves.

If you think, flares are garbage, train to use them at a depth where you have 75% darkness resistance. It is worth the training and you will find nice things as well.

If you think, darkness is too rippy, try to get your light radius to 150% and your darkness resistance to 75%. If you have some eHP regi, it will play like ease.

If you think that Delve should be accessable without mapping, you maybe should wait for 4.0 to get new content beside Atlas eventually.


Actually, GGG buffed delving at white and yellow tiers in terms of sulphite costs/gather ratio. Only delving deeper than you can map will cause stavation of your progress and IMHO, this is perfectly correct by design.
All those complaining about sulphite hoping that it will be removed are about to destroy a great league because of their inability to accept that every league content always has been gated by maps.


Every league content has been gated by maps?
Boy,you must be new to this game.
So your solution is to not progress deeper to the league content,but remain let's say equal to tier 5 maps delving.
That way the problem of high tier maps not droping sufficiently resulting to people not having enough sulphite to delve deeper for more than 10 minutes per hour is solved.
Great thinking,i'm sure the majority of the players enjoys a league they cannot experience for more than 10% of playing time.
My proposal is to play this game at the tier you can handle and have fun. If you want to push further don't blame that everything is getting grindy and gated.
You are right that my statement on league content gated by maps is not 100% true. If you want to play at shallow level and don't care about challenging league content like bosses, you can ignore maps and access league content from the campaign, but seriously is this the league or just a preview on what is gated by maps?
GGG is somehow obsessed by gating content behind RNG based grind. Maybe it is because their companies name? It never have been different, but it never was that obvious like in Delve. This is not necessarily a good approach but exactly what GGG is selling all over the years.
Maybe it is time for a change. I love changes to the better. GGG has a big chance to renew PoE with upcomming 4.0. Let's see how things will go.
Let's explore new playstyles - Play it your own way, not just like the others.
Quality management is one of the most underrated success factors in every business...
Last edited by Synopse on Sep 25, 2018, 10:22:32 AM
"
Synopse wrote:
"
PsOfOs wrote:
Spoiler
"
Synopse wrote:
Delve is designed to play it yourway, but as much as I understand complaints, here are some suggestions to deal with delve.

If you think, your delve is too expensive, delve more shallow. Playing one tier higher almost double your delves.

If you think, flares are garbage, train to use them at a depth where you have 75% darkness resistance. It is worth the training and you will find nice things as well.

If you think, darkness is too rippy, try to get your light radius to 150% and your darkness resistance to 75%. If you have some eHP regi, it will play like ease.

If you think that Delve should be accessable without mapping, you maybe should wait for 4.0 to get new content beside Atlas eventually.


Actually, GGG buffed delving at white and yellow tiers in terms of sulphite costs/gather ratio. Only delving deeper than you can map will cause stavation of your progress and IMHO, this is perfectly correct by design.
All those complaining about sulphite hoping that it will be removed are about to destroy a great league because of their inability to accept that every league content always has been gated by maps.


Every league content has been gated by maps?
Boy,you must be new to this game.
So your solution is to not progress deeper to the league content,but remain let's say equal to tier 5 maps delving.
That way the problem of high tier maps not droping sufficiently resulting to people not having enough sulphite to delve deeper for more than 10 minutes per hour is solved.
Great thinking,i'm sure the majority of the players enjoys a league they cannot experience for more than 10% of playing time.
My proposal is to play this game at the tier you can handle and have fun. If you want to push further don't blame that everything is getting grindy and gated.
You are right that my statement on league content gated by maps is not 100% true. If you want to play at shallow level and don't care about challenging league content like bosses, you can ignore maps and access league content from the campaign, but seriously is this the league or just a preview on what is gated by maps?
GGG is somehow obsessed by gating content behind RNG based grind. Maybe it is because their companies name? It never have been different, but it never was that obvious like in Delve. This is not necessarily a good approach but exactly what GGG is selling all over the years.
Maybe it is time for a change. I love changes to the better. GGG has a big chance to renew PoE with upcomming 4.0. Let's see how things will go.

The problem is that gating league content behind already gated main game content(high tier maps) is silly as decision,except if game developers do not care for semi-casual players like myself these days.
For example my character can handle t15+ maps but the damn things won't drop. Since they cannot drop,i cannot delve for more than 5 minutes at a time before i have to grind t8-9 maps which are not challenging at all,so not fun at all.
I will not comment on your advice to enjoy the campaign...
League difficulty should be based on hard encounters,deadly mobs and so on.
Of course players who dedicate themselves on grinding hard should be rewarded extra by drops from uber bosses or heavy grinds.
Raising the cost of sulphite 10 times without increasing the drop rates of high tier maps which give more sulphite,is a nerf to the number of players that can enjoy the league's content.
Maybe this is their plan,i don't know.
Maybe you agree with this "only the worthy traders and people with 6 hours a day can enjoy the league's content".
The result is players quitting the league and for one more time,hoping for a better POE 7.3 or whatever.
Power creep has bad results in video games,everytime. When strong pieces of gear can be owned by anyone in 2 days of trading,you gate the actual content of the game. Make gear harder to get,content more easily available.
That is my suggestion.
"
PsOfOs wrote:

Raising the cost of sulphite 10 times without increasing the drop rates of high tier maps which give more sulphite,is a nerf to the number of players that can enjoy the league's content.

This sentence nailed it, and is the core of the issue. It's literally a "player exclusivity" patch.
What does God need with a Starship?
"
PsOfOs wrote:
The problem is that gating league content behind already gated main game content(high tier maps) is silly as decision,except if game developers do not care for semi-casual players like myself these days.
For example my character can handle t15+ maps but the damn things won't drop. Since they cannot drop,i cannot delve for more than 5 minutes at a time before i have to grind t8-9 maps which are not challenging at all,so not fun at all.
I will not comment on your advice to enjoy the campaign...
League difficulty should be based on hard encounters,deadly mobs and so on.
Of course players who dedicate themselves on grinding hard should be rewarded extra by drops from uber bosses or heavy grinds.
Raising the cost of sulphite 10 times without increasing the drop rates of high tier maps which give more sulphite,is a nerf to the number of players that can enjoy the league's content.
Maybe this is their plan,i don't know.
Maybe you agree with this "only the worthy traders and people with 6 hours a day can enjoy the league's content".
The result is players quitting the league and for one more time,hoping for a better POE 7.3 or whatever.
Power creep has bad results in video games,everytime. When strong pieces of gear can be owned by anyone in 2 days of trading,you gate the actual content of the game. Make gear harder to get,content more easily available.
That is my suggestion.
I have the same feeling and I think that you nailed the key issues, but GGG is not willing or able to provide it in a way ballanced the way you propose.
They like to make crazy stuff possible and put you in front of a wall of grind which you can't pass even with the craziest shit. This is a strange approach and I wish they would do it differently but the ain't.
Therefor, my approach is to arange with GGG's way till there is any ARPG that can do better. I give up to convince GGG that they are 'wrong'. I think they do it their way anyway, nothing more and nothing less.
Let's explore new playstyles - Play it your own way, not just like the others.
Quality management is one of the most underrated success factors in every business...
Last edited by Synopse on Sep 25, 2018, 1:20:24 PM
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
"
Iznuts wrote:
If you don't like doing maps then its probably time to take a break and find something else to play.


or maybe time for GGG to crawl out of their autistic windowlicking session and realise if they add exciting new endgame content that they can actually keep large parts of their player base who will otherwise do just that, leave the fking game and take their future supporter money with them?



It's not that i dont like running maps, but if i really wanted to spend a few hrs chaining maps id be doing it in standard. theres a reason this league is called delve, not atlas 2.0
you must mapping for 2 hours to be able to delve for 15 mins - GGG new league LOGIC SYSTEM IMPLEMENTED - RIP.

I'm not playing standard, i'm playing from time to time in new leagues.
SO can I enjoy NEW LEAGUE CONTENT GGG!?

What the f is wrong with you people!?

GL HF
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
Gear now drops like candy, the idea of having gear as a reward has become a joke, items that used to be many exalts are now worth 1 chaos each on the market thanks to insanely buffed drop rates.

No, the problem is in the market combined with build diversity, not in drop rates. Drop rates are shit. But when you get item which you'll never use, you sell it. If supply is greater than demand, prices drop. Buit if you want to find specific item (you know, like in ARPGs), chances are that you'll never do.

"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
"
Iznuts wrote:
If you don't like doing maps then its probably time to take a break and find something else to play.


or maybe time for GGG to crawl out of their autistic windowlicking session and realise if they add exciting new endgame content that they can actually keep large parts of their player base who will otherwise do just that, leave the fking game and take their future supporter money with them?

You know, it would be good to be actually able to take not only future supporter money, but past one too. Because supporter money are supposed to be used to make the game better, not worse.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
Last edited by Oblitus on Sep 26, 2018, 3:32:22 AM

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