Wolcen Hype Release!

DarthSki44 wrote:

Chris Wilson...is...well something. I love to play armchair psychologist, but I'm on thin fucking ice forum probation wise, so I will pass for now. I will say that he has "evolved" over the last few years.

Money does generally "things" with people,and if you're able to make a lot of it then it does a lot of "special things" with people :)

- Best Signature Ever -
DarthSki44 wrote:
You said people were forced to choose. They were not. They made decisions. If it was worth 30 to them, maybe it would be worth 40. If not then they wait. What exactly is your problem here? People wait for sales, discounts, complete editions, all the time. No one was penalized or forced to do anything. That's a ridiculous conclusion (and it wasnt a 50% increase)

And no one is saying Wolcen shouldn't be reviewed or criticized. Cmon. All I was saying is do it fairly, and accurately.

Is the game a mess with mechanics and online server issues? Yes 100%.

Have the Devs crossed the line with unprecedented shady tactics and predatory behavior? Gimme a break.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but your seemingly presented shock and disgust with Wolcen gets nothing but an eyeroll from me. Idk maybe you are just the review-bomb type. If so, go ahead and live your best life.

Now you're just being disingenuous. They were forced to choose. Calling it 'making decisions' is just being evasive. The choice wasn't between $30 or $40, they already knew that. It was between paying up early for a gamble or being penalized for being sensible. My problem is with gamers being taken for a ride by being encouraged to buy into a broken product before they could know it was broken.

And bringing up other kinds of sales and discounts is just false equivalency - non-launch discounts and sales involve a known quantity i.e. you know what you're buying into, there are already reviews, etc. Here the devs deliberately tried to use the lower price to push an unknown quantity. People were being actively encouraged NOT to wait for the best time (in terms of both price AND quality), but to cash in - the opposite of the phenomenon you're talking about.

And what makes you say the game is being unfairly or inaccurately criticized? The people are pointing out actual bugs, exploits, crashes, etc. etc. And if you're bugged by all the people who're doing nothing but pouring scorn on the game, where were you when this forum was inundated with people doing nothing but singing high praises to it? Some people post balanced reviews, others overly positive and others overly negative. The latter two are opposites, yet you're only taking issue with the negativity, not the hype.

As for me being the 'review-bomb' type, lol. Should I accuse you of being the slavish consumerist type ala your average FIFA gamer? Look at the heading of this thread. It's not about review-bombing, it's about responding to a pervasive malaise that arose on this forum as well. And that malaise is as much with gamers nowadays as with publishers. I've already written that I don't mind Wolcen sorting its own problems out eventually, indeed I wish them luck with that. But I am going to call out threads like this for being part of that malaise that gives us products like this to begin with. Wolcen isn't even the problem here (i.e. on the PoE forums), the existence of pre-release hype threads like this one is.
[quote="Qarl"]Fixed a bug where occasionally Fairgraves, Neverdying never dies[/quote]
^ I guess no point in dwelling on it further. We will just agree to disagree.

I didn't & dont feel forced or pressured or otherwise disenfranchised by Wolcen. I dont feel victimised by predatory salesmenship.

When I mention accuracy and fairness of the mechanics, I mean that perception is a problem. If the game allows you to stack block chance and block efficeny to 100% through gear, gems, and passives, that is an error in balance, not an exploit. If a skill modifier node provides damage per aliment, but the game doesnt cap the stacking, that is a mechanic balance issue, not an exploit. Hell even the tyranny node, with an obvious typo giving you up to 2000% damage, is doing what it says. It's not an exploit. It's way out of balance. (Like Minion builds in PoE. Not balanced, but certainly not an exploit)

Duping gold & items, crashes, disconnects, player & stash deletion, progression errors, etc...are highly problematic and deserve all the scrutiny in the world.

As far as your personal crusade to call out whatever practice and behavior you deem questionable, well good luck. I'm not sure what it accomplishes, maybe you feel good? A majority of people I suspect, just say meh, and move on. But you do you.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
Tsokushin wrote:
Oh, the irony of a Tencent supporter sermonising on cash-grabs.


Deeply enjoying the tactical possibilities of Evasion. Kind of brilliant of them to make it dash in the opposite direction of the cursor. I've taken down much stronger enemies than I could merely facetank just by learning their attack patterns and using a mix of Evasion and the dodge-roll. Satisfying!

I'm chiming in here after playing about 60 hours of Wolcen.

If you are indeed Charan, I remember your post from way back that spoke along the lines of PoE failing in combat because it doesn't really scratch that itch in a one vs many type combat. I may be misremembering some details of the post, but I do remember walking away with that type of understanding of it, how combat feels against many targets in PoE compared to Wolcen.

And I can say that after Wolcen, I completely understand and agree with you 100%. Combat is just amazing in this game. The absolute highlight of the game for me. I myself am an Anvil of Woe man. It's very interesting coming up with your own impromptu combos like taking Pugilistic Momentum for the stun on basics, Intravenous Neural Cord for attack speed, and the Charge talent on Anvil of Woe.

The second highlight of the game though has got to be the game structure itself and the capacity for offline play. It's a liberating feeling when I can boot it up, and not have to worry about a single thing like busted mechanics, currency/hr, if I'm going to lose a character to a stutter on a $1600 machine or ping, or the RNG^RNG^RNG based loot/progression involved. I just can't stand the RNG treadmill for PoE, I think one of my first posts on this account was about the 6L system.

I'll split my post because I doubt everyone will agree with my next points.

And this is why I uninstalled PoE the day Wolcen came out. That and for some reason it kept crashing or disconnecting every second or third time I zoned. Because everything I wanted from PoE, Wolcen does. Everything I wanted from D3, Wolcen does. Does it do them better than either? No, and in some cases it does them worse, but it's sort of like a meal with just two of your favourite dishes done well versus two meals with just one of your favourite dishes done really well, but that one wedged between courses you can't stand. Ha, now you know it's me, because I just can't resist a food analogy when it comes to ARPGs. And yeah, the supremacy of aoe/ranged over single target/melee? Not even a thing in Wolcen, given every attack and skill has some form of logical, appropriate AoE. If anything, the opposite is the case, because the vast bulk of clearing mandates/expeditions is focussing down very durable big bads while managing adds. Several of my builds have come undone due to insufficient single target burst. Go figure!

The big shame of Wolcen right now is the meaty game play, the real 'gotta keep going' mode, is locked behind a clunky, unbalanced and in some cases outright broken story mode. As I noted earlier, I personally enjoyed the experience but I was one of the lucky ones -- few crashes, and no walls other than the difficulty jump of Chapter 2's boss. I had to help a friend of mine *edit his character's file* just to get past the last boss of Chapter 3. We neither of us like cheating, but when said boss goes invulnerable due to a bug, well...that's that, really. Awful thing is you can only do that offline, so we can't even play together yet. Which sucks because we're both local and that Australian server is awesome ping. Better even than PoE's.

And that meaty game play, Champion of Stormfall, is as difficult (and diverse) as Maps, if not harder, *from level 1*. I like to mule down a bunch of enneracts to give a new character a bit of a boost (and access to the more interesting forms of their chosen skill) but this is hardly potent tweaking. Especially for casting, which tapers off as you level due to poor scaling right now.

Anyway, glad you're enjoying! So much fun. And I agree about exiles. Reluctantly. This past week has been a real eye-opener.

edit: just so you know what passives not to touch right now, in case you have avoided the reddit (and who'd blame you?):


Most of them are either carry-overs from beta or rushed-out-the-door third wheel game-changers. I don't think it's large enough a list to declare the game 'broken', but it's definitely going to keep Wolcen Studio busy for the coming months, given they're looking at one patch a week right now.


86,992 right now. That's a lot of people not refunding so far. Maybe they gave up and just decided to enjoy the game they were stuck with. Heh!


I never did check the character slot limit online during beta, but right now it's 6. That's really disappointing. I smell mtxes...and before you get all uppity, Wolcen would hardly be the first buy-to-play with character slot mtxes. Even the sacred, untouchable Guild Wars 1, without which you wouldn't have some of PoE's biggest innovations as an ARPG, had them.
I am W James Chan, author of Blackcloak: A Man of His Sword, the novel from which the PoE unique Oni-Goroshi is derived. So if you liked that, give the book a go on Amazon. I think it's pretty good -- but like Her, it isn't to be come at lightly, and it definitely isn't what it first seems to be.
Last edited by Foreverhappychan on Feb 21, 2020, 5:56:22 PM
I defended GGG for years for their utterly terrible desync issues, so I can't shit too much on Wolcen. It would be hypocritical. But I'm definitely waiting for a couple of patches until I dive deep into the game. Probably until I get bored with PoE 3.10, so around 6-7 weeks from now. Godspeed devs.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
Xavderion wrote:
I defended GGG for years for their utterly terrible desync issues, so I can't shit too much on Wolcen. It would be hypocritical.

thing is there's nothing to "defend" to begin with unless you're willing to talk to walls here (poe loyalists that see every other arpg that's not poe a competition to find whatever flaws it has to start talking shit on them) I understand that a launch game can't be perfect but some of this people clearly are the typical twitch poe fanboy.

more arpgs out there = better.
"All is fine and well!" - The community 2020

All the lawyer talking and the right words can easily decieve the most naive customers..

Chapter: XXIII.

That's helpfull, already found out some of them myself but a list spares me some effort.
Ill check the link tomorrow and compare it with the passive system tomorrow so i have a mental map to avoid.
Not having a search function in the passive system is also quite unfortunate, its weird how people forget these basic things when being too deep into a project.

Probably going to start a CC+DoT caster tomorrow, my melee character is at 71 currently doing i think lvl 110+ content now. Game is fun so far and im wondering how high they will allow the enemy scaling to go.


Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
One of the biggest issues I have with this game, is I have zero faith in Wolcen Studios. I mean zero. Like, everything they do seems to be a red flag, or just grossly incompetent.

They come off as swindlers/dishonest, and as people who have no clue about their own game. Like, tons of bugs from EA made it into the game. They didnt fix any of it. They bricked their entire game for 40 hours, with a hotfix. They cant even patch their game. They are currently only patching their game once a week. There are people like my friend, whose game is just bricked from using an end-game mechanic, just hast to wait on his patch. They cant seem to prioritize anything. You got people playing offline whose characters are being deleted and they post stuff about fixing it later in the week. They take 40 hours to even get their servers back up, and continue to have issues.

They give excuses left and right about why the game is bad, but never their fault. They blame Gamestar for reviewing a bad copy, but it sounds like they got the exact copy we all got. They keep blaming their "partners" for their server issues. I'm pretty sure no one else is having those issues with that same "partner." They are now blaming their "partner" for only being able to patch the game once a week. They also even blame the popularity of the game for them cheaping out on servers. The game is so riddled with bugs, its almost like no one tested it at all.

I mean I could keep going and going. Price increases, complete lack of game Queues, or login Queues(something even D2 had 22 years ago), just poor everything.

Even if the core gameplay mechanic is sound(its basically non-set vanilla D3, even down to the itemization, which is good obviously), I dont have any faith they can ever get it working correctly.

I mean I had faith that GGG could make PoE decent, even while I was rubberbanding like I was on a bungee cord, while doing my 2 acts and Maelstrom of Chaos back in the day. Same goes for D3, which turned into a pretty good game even if the people here dont think so. But this company here seems lost. They actually seem completely lost. Like someone else made the game, handed it to them, and said release this. And thats what they did.

They are so many things that in the beta they were wrong and that in the official release they remained exactly the same, as if people had been testing in vain.
There are so many things that do not work as they should or simply do not work at all.
There are so many basic things badly done, like sometimes you must do up to 3 times click on an item for the game to respond and be able to sell the item to npc.
There are so many things that fail, that for me this is another No Man's Sky. Maybe in a couple of years it's a decent game, or maybe it's still crap.

It is even curious. Until 1 week ago I had the Beta installed on my PC and there it was, waiting to be played again at some leisure time. Now it is just another uninstalled game that I don't even keep a good memory. Just a fiasco.
Bethesda is known for having good ideas and terrible realization of them. GGG is a Bethesda subsidiary or what?
thing is there's nothing to "defend" to begin with unless you're willing to talk to walls here (poe loyalists that see every other arpg that's not poe a competition to find whatever flaws it has to start talking shit on them) I understand that a launch game can't be perfect but some of this people clearly are the typical twitch poe fanboy.

Man, I hate this attitude. You don't like X because you like Y. It is arguably worse than the "you are just jealous" response.

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