[3.12] Ball Lightning Miner | Facetank Sirus | Destroy All content | In depth beginner guide

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Thanks for a thorough reply, dude! I need to learn crafting, like I didn't understand 60% of what you wrote lol. I just bought what looked good according to the guide. Thanks again!


Haha, no worries! I was pretty much in the same place at the start of the league, but I've gotten way more comfortable with it over the last few weeks, especially with all of the crafting guides for specific items over throughout the league, as they've given small hints to the different tricks you can do to get the items you want!

As I mentioned in the comment, definitely check out section 10 of the build guide (newly added): Community feedback + crafting guides. There's a long list of the really helpful crafting commentary throughough the league in there, which go through different pieces of gear we can use as massive upgrades, with step by step crafting instructions.

2 things I'd definitely recommend trying to get more comfortable with would be Craft of Exile and Path of Building! With Craft of Exile, before you start anything with it, hit the "Advanced Options" button, then change the setting for "Tags" from "Only When Relevant" to "Always Show". If you type in any item base and select it, it'll show you all of the possible prefixes and suffixes, with the weighting for likely it is to be rolled, as well as all of the mod tags. The great part about this, is that it means you can figure out exactly how to craft what you want using the deterministic harvest methods based on the mods tags. You can also switch up the different crafting methods (fossils, essences) to see whether they might give you more likely results for rolling high tier mods without harvest tags (such as + flat Mana for a lot of our items, or Culling Strike on some of the recommended glove crafts) - so this often means a lot of essence spam, or lucent fossil spam first to get the high tier mana, before then harvest crafting on top of that. Really powerful stuff once you get used to it!

Same goes for Path of Building. If you import your current character, you can craft items inside of Path of Building and it'll give you tooltips to show exactly how much you'll gain and lose by replacing an item. I didn't realise how much of an increase some items or specific mods had for us until I started doing this!

Good luck with the crafting, feel free to message if you've got any more questions.
Hello everyone! I wanted some feedback on the build. I switched from PF + Sabo to PF + Heiro yesterday. Overall, it feels a little more tanky, but the damage seemed to go down significantly. Is that the trade off I am supposed to notice?

I wanted to get ideas on how to improve the build and if there is any low hanging fruit that isn't a crit multi watcher's eye investment. Just any general advice or things I have completely wrong.

I tried an explode mace and it was decent for clear, but seemed weak for bossing. I don't think the mace was rolled very well. Do people notice something similar or did I do that wrong as well?

POB: https://pastebin.com/rJezbfMK
"
chipawa wrote:
Hello everyone! I wanted some feedback on the build. I switched from PF + Sabo to PF + Heiro yesterday. Overall, it feels a little more tanky, but the damage seemed to go down significantly. Is that the trade off I am supposed to notice?

I wanted to get ideas on how to improve the build and if there is any low hanging fruit that isn't a crit multi watcher's eye investment. Just any general advice or things I have completely wrong.

I tried an explode mace and it was decent for clear, but seemed weak for bossing. I don't think the mace was rolled very well. Do people notice something similar or did I do that wrong as well?

POB: https://pastebin.com/rJezbfMK


The most noticeable things I could see, as far as low hanging fruit goes:

- Unspec from Throatseeker, and down into Saboteur. PoB calculates the average hit damage to be about the same, but the 2 additional mines will give us a good bit more damage.

- Since your tree is specced back into Saboteur and Assassination, you can remove the Thread of Hope. Replace it with a jewel that'll give some combination of flat mana, % mana or crit.

- Get a better annointment. Swapping out what you have now for Crusader, or Arcane Capacitor is a big boost.

- Crit flask. Bit of a multi-tiered change, but I'd get rid of staunching on the mana flask, replace it with Catarina's crit mod. Instead of staunching I've got corrupted blood immunity on the jewel I stick in my stygian, but putting it on one of your other flasks works too (although you have less room for maneouver there, since you're running 2 uniques).

- Gem level: BL gets a good increase in flat added lightning damage per level. Swapping out to a 21 gem is an easy source of a bit more damage.

- Then probably the most important one: More mana. Flat mana, in all of the places. You have so many jewels, and only one of them is giving flat mana. Abyss jewels can give up to +40 flat mana each, which with your current scaling is an additional 140 mana and +1500 to average hit. Obviously don't swap out all of your mine throwing jewels for them, but we scale a lot of our damage from mana, so a few extra sources of flat mana will not go amiss. To scale that up then to your weapons, by not having T1 max mana on them you're losing out on 650 mana total (each) and an additional 6k damage per hit.

- More expensive upgrades: Rare crafting your amulet and replacing Dream Fragments gives a fair upgrade overall upgrade. The dual crafted stygian option gives another huge damage boost, but is of course an expensive and cumbersome craft. Expensive sceptres with mana, would be an upgrade of course, but also a lot of painful crafting when you've already got semi-decent weapon crafts already, decide worth at own risk. Better rolls on Cloak of Defiance (perfect flat mana), and Indigon (+Spell Damage). Indigon especially adds a lot with 25% Spell Damage compared to the 21% you have now, but I've not checked prices for perfect rolls. Could be down to an ex now, which would definitely be worthwhile.

- Upgrades, I guess? : Your large cluster jewel would be improved if you replaced Prismatic Heart with Snowstorm, but you get more out of Stormdrinker than you would from Scintillating Idea, as the 20% additional mana isn't adding that much more without more flat mana sources. Worth swapping to if you get more flat mana.

You can play around with all those changes in PoB, some are definitely more worthwhile than others, so decide for yourself based on the cost and effort!

Footnote: I really need to stop beginning to write a short response and turning it into an essay, really distracting me from work haha.
hue hue hue

so I have around 1000 crafts saved now so finally did some new weps;

WHAT a huge difference; MANA is king, CRIT MULTI is the queen

These weps are pretty easy to make and actually kinda fun to do!

They ain't PERFECT but damn I love them



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d3viant6 wrote:
hue hue hue

so I have around 1000 crafts saved now so finally did some new weps;

WHAT a huge difference; MANA is king, CRIT MULTI is the queen

These weps are pretty easy to make and actually kinda fun to do!

They ain't PERFECT but damn I love them



Nice. Crafting your stuff feels very rewarding. Next league will feel weird without harvest.


Just crafted this, holy shit, that took a lot of luck. Craft of Exile bugged out on me initially and had the chance of rolling all 4 of these affixes at 140c. I spent 138c rolling and didn't hit even 3 of the mods. Applied them in CoE again and it displayed 4000c for the lowest tier mana regen, and 16000c for the highest. I happened to hit the perfect pair alt rolling in < 100 alts, then regaled the mana regen. Phew!

I didn't see a crafting guide for this cluster, and since it's the most recommended combination of notables, here's a very brief rundown on crafting one yourself.

1. Get yourself an ilv 50 base. If you're a maniac with lots of money to spend, you can go for 84 for the highest tier small passive suffixes, but if not micromanaging and just want the notables, this gives you the best chance.

2. Alt+aug spam. You want to hit both Disorienting Display and Scintillating Idea. Disorienting Display and Snowstorm means you're gonna spend a lot more in harvest crafts trying to narrow down Scintillating Idea.

3. Regal. There's a non-negligible chance this is gonna land an affix that will make things difficult for us, but there's not really any better options. Either hope you hit a suffix (bonus points if it's something you want, or something that can be harvest crafted off), or hope the prefix is removable. If not, try and annul it, or scour and go back to step 2.

4. If you hit a suffix in the previous step, keep it on and move onto step 5. If you hit a prefix, remove it based on the information in step 3. Augment chaos, this will hit chaos resistance in the suffix, and more importantly allow us to add the prefix we need.

5. Augment cold. If you're rolling with a base between i50 and i68, the only other mod that can get in the way is Vengeful Commander, but you have a 33% chance of rolling Snowstorm, so shouldn't be expensive to hit at all. If your base is higher, it opens up more Cold mods, but their weightings are all lower than Vengeful and Snowstorm, so it shouldn't make a huge difference to your rolling. There's very few mods, and the weightings are favourable, so this should be pretty cheap.
Last edited by Sigthorne on Jul 30, 2020, 4:51:43 PM
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Sigthorne wrote:
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chipawa wrote:
Hello everyone! I wanted some feedback on the build. I switched from PF + Sabo to PF + Heiro yesterday. Overall, it feels a little more tanky, but the damage seemed to go down significantly. Is that the trade off I am supposed to notice?

I wanted to get ideas on how to improve the build and if there is any low hanging fruit that isn't a crit multi watcher's eye investment. Just any general advice or things I have completely wrong.

I tried an explode mace and it was decent for clear, but seemed weak for bossing. I don't think the mace was rolled very well. Do people notice something similar or did I do that wrong as well?

POB: https://pastebin.com/rJezbfMK


The most noticeable things I could see, as far as low hanging fruit goes:

- Unspec from Throatseeker, and down into Saboteur. PoB calculates the average hit damage to be about the same, but the 2 additional mines will give us a good bit more damage.

- Since your tree is specced back into Saboteur and Assassination, you can remove the Thread of Hope. Replace it with a jewel that'll give some combination of flat mana, % mana or crit.

- Get a better annointment. Swapping out what you have now for Crusader, or Arcane Capacitor is a big boost.

- Crit flask. Bit of a multi-tiered change, but I'd get rid of staunching on the mana flask, replace it with Catarina's crit mod. Instead of staunching I've got corrupted blood immunity on the jewel I stick in my stygian, but putting it on one of your other flasks works too (although you have less room for maneouver there, since you're running 2 uniques).

- Gem level: BL gets a good increase in flat added lightning damage per level. Swapping out to a 21 gem is an easy source of a bit more damage.

- Then probably the most important one: More mana. Flat mana, in all of the places. You have so many jewels, and only one of them is giving flat mana. Abyss jewels can give up to +40 flat mana each, which with your current scaling is an additional 140 mana and +1500 to average hit. Obviously don't swap out all of your mine throwing jewels for them, but we scale a lot of our damage from mana, so a few extra sources of flat mana will not go amiss. To scale that up then to your weapons, by not having T1 max mana on them you're losing out on 650 mana total (each) and an additional 6k damage per hit.

- More expensive upgrades: Rare crafting your amulet and replacing Dream Fragments gives a fair upgrade overall upgrade. The dual crafted stygian option gives another huge damage boost, but is of course an expensive and cumbersome craft. Expensive sceptres with mana, would be an upgrade of course, but also a lot of painful crafting when you've already got semi-decent weapon crafts already, decide worth at own risk. Better rolls on Cloak of Defiance (perfect flat mana), and Indigon (+Spell Damage). Indigon especially adds a lot with 25% Spell Damage compared to the 21% you have now, but I've not checked prices for perfect rolls. Could be down to an ex now, which would definitely be worthwhile.

- Upgrades, I guess? : Your large cluster jewel would be improved if you replaced Prismatic Heart with Snowstorm, but you get more out of Stormdrinker than you would from Scintillating Idea, as the 20% additional mana isn't adding that much more without more flat mana sources. Worth swapping to if you get more flat mana.

You can play around with all those changes in PoB, some are definitely more worthwhile than others, so decide for yourself based on the cost and effort!

Footnote: I really need to stop beginning to write a short response and turning it into an essay, really distracting me from work haha.


Man, thank you so much for all of your input and time. I really appreciate it. I sat there for a few hours last night just weighing the options. I moved around a lot of points to get rid of my third flask cluster jewel in favor of more mana nodes. I replaced the indigon for a better roll, ball lightning lvl 21, got a crit flask enchant, anointed crusader. I remember reading something became useless after you annoint crusader, but I cannot recall.

I haven't been able to get many forms of flat mana. The abyss jewels are pretty sparse with mana and life and good rolls. I'll keep my eye out. I also need to try to upgrade/craft the clusters, but that seems like a longshot to craft. The new amulet didn't seem worth the craft, but my POB skills may be lacking (it came up as a damage loss). The dual crafted stygian also confused me, I had the crusader influence lightning damage and add/removed lightning so now I have the crit chance unfortunately. The dual influenced gloves also confused my POB so I have no idea how much of an upgrade that would be.

I am also considering going back to PF + Sabo instead of my current PF + Heiro. It just feels a bit worse.

Overall. I am going to focus on either selling my current weapons to upgrade to the scepter for more damage and mana and get a few more abyss jewels. I don't expect you to sift through all this again, I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate the time you put into it and didn't want it to go unanswered.

That being said. Still looking for dumb dumb mistakes (aka. no flat mana in my build).

POB: https://pastebin.com/r4fAJe1a
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chipawa wrote:

Man, thank you so much for all of your input and time. I really appreciate it. I sat there for a few hours last night just weighing the options. I moved around a lot of points to get rid of my third flask cluster jewel in favor of more mana nodes. I replaced the indigon for a better roll, ball lightning lvl 21, got a crit flask enchant, anointed crusader. I remember reading something became useless after you annoint crusader, but I cannot recall.

I haven't been able to get many forms of flat mana. The abyss jewels are pretty sparse with mana and life and good rolls. I'll keep my eye out. I also need to try to upgrade/craft the clusters, but that seems like a longshot to craft. The new amulet didn't seem worth the craft, but my POB skills may be lacking (it came up as a damage loss). The dual crafted stygian also confused me, I had the crusader influence lightning damage and add/removed lightning so now I have the crit chance unfortunately. The dual influenced gloves also confused my POB so I have no idea how much of an upgrade that would be.

I am also considering going back to PF + Sabo instead of my current PF + Heiro. It just feels a bit worse.

Overall. I am going to focus on either selling my current weapons to upgrade to the scepter for more damage and mana and get a few more abyss jewels. I don't expect you to sift through all this again, I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate the time you put into it and didn't want it to go unanswered.

That being said. Still looking for dumb dumb mistakes (aka. no flat mana in my build).

POB: https://pastebin.com/r4fAJe1a


You're missing a couple of mana nodes on the tree (small passives) here and there. Switching Throatseeker To Heartseeker buys you a point and barely drops your damage, but then you can grab a mana node (probably the one next to dynamo for 120 mana).

For flat, you'll need to get into crafting. You can recraft your belt+fertile. Weapons you could have at least 1 scepter for 100+ mana. Then assuming you get T1 cold on your belt you could consider replacing dream fragments with a crafted ring with flat mana (you can check the guides from the last section of OP).

Some of your jewels don't have %mana. Depends on budget though.

You can look at my character if you like, I'm over 8k mana at the moment, if I spent another 50ex on gear I'd reach 9k easily.

When looking at weapons you probably want to fill the "Mana spent recently" box so that PoB calculates indigon properly otherwise weapons without mana will probably yield more damage.

For example, if I add my scepter to your pob replacing your demon dagger, I get a 6.6% damage increase, which isn't that great on paper. However, it also adds 735 mana, which is not calculated into your damage with the default pob config.

Your current setup has 3544 mana spent from arcane cloak. This number jumps to 4014 with my scepter. Here's the actual numbers and hopefully it will help some people understand why mana is king for Indigon builds:

If you don't configure mana spent recently
107k -> 115k ~6.9% increase

With 3544 mana
168k -> 179k ~6.6% increase

With 4014 mana
168k -> 190k ~13% increase

Also, 735 mana adds some survivability.

Hope that makes sense.
Last edited by Yalpe on Jul 30, 2020, 4:25:15 PM
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chipawa wrote:
Man, thank you so much for all of your input and time. I really appreciate it. I sat there for a few hours last night just weighing the options. I moved around a lot of points to get rid of my third flask cluster jewel in favor of more mana nodes. I replaced the indigon for a better roll, ball lightning lvl 21, got a crit flask enchant, anointed crusader. I remember reading something became useless after you annoint crusader, but I cannot recall.

I haven't been able to get many forms of flat mana. The abyss jewels are pretty sparse with mana and life and good rolls. I'll keep my eye out. I also need to try to upgrade/craft the clusters, but that seems like a longshot to craft. The new amulet didn't seem worth the craft, but my POB skills may be lacking (it came up as a damage loss). The dual crafted stygian also confused me, I had the crusader influence lightning damage and add/removed lightning so now I have the crit chance unfortunately. The dual influenced gloves also confused my POB so I have no idea how much of an upgrade that would be.

I am also considering going back to PF + Sabo instead of my current PF + Heiro. It just feels a bit worse.

Overall. I am going to focus on either selling my current weapons to upgrade to the scepter for more damage and mana and get a few more abyss jewels. I don't expect you to sift through all this again, I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate the time you put into it and didn't want it to go unanswered.

That being said. Still looking for dumb dumb mistakes (aka. no flat mana in my build).

POB: https://pastebin.com/r4fAJe1a


No problem! I won't go through it all again this time, since you seem to have a decent handle now on playing around with the build for simulating changes but, some tips on PoB with this build. You need to set up the configuration for our build to get accurate results.

For example, if I swap out Atziri's Foible for the new amulet, this is what is changes for me:

These are my current PoB settings, which should be roughly what you want. Only thing I can think you'd want to add is checking the consecrated ground box for players and enemies, as you're running Bottled Faith, you'll also want to check the box for are enemies unnerved when/if you add the mod to your item pool:



I tested out the diffs on your PoB too, results are pretty similar - you just need to make sure that you're annointing the amulet as well, otherwise it's gonna show as a loss since your Foible is already annointed in PoB.

The gloves have roughly equal PoB stats, until you tick the checkbox for unnvered enemies. The big bonus of the dual influenced gloves over yours is that they apply the debuff, which makes enemies take 10% increased spell damage. Which, once selected in PoB, adds an extra 6k per hit, roughly.

The dual influence Stygian is a huge upgrade off the bat, but especially so if you're running the gloves too, as the 50% increase spell crit chance against unnerved enemies is massive. It's just difficult to simulate in PoB, as it doesn't like that modifier. You have to temp sim it by adding 50% increased spell crit as a custom affix, and roughly estimating from there.

Only other thing I'll mention is the Large Cluster - it shouldn't be a longshot at all to be honest, if you check out the step-by-step I posted right above your last comment, you should be able to craft that pretty easily. Stick to an ilvl50 - ilvl67 base, and you can roll the 2 affixes you need (Disorienting and Scintillating) in 400 alts, on average. On the regal, even if you hit a prefix, there's a good chance you hit something that can be harvest removed (or worst case roll again, the alt chance makes this is a really reasonable option), then you can hit Snowstorm very easily with augment cold/remove-add. At that ilevel, the only other cold prefix in the way is Vengeful Commander, but the weighting is only double, so a 33% chance should be an easy roll.

Hope that helps!

EDIT: Yeah as Yalpe says, it's important to correctly configure mana spent if you want a reasonable idea of how much flat/% mana is actually going to improve our build.
Last edited by Sigthorne on Jul 30, 2020, 4:53:20 PM
Build theorycrafting question:

I was tinkering around yesterday with the idea of what we could replace Omeyocan with if we went all-out with Harvest crafting, and came up with this. DPS difference is of course pretty slim, but I think the increase in MS and action speed from Tailwind and Elusive should tip the scale a bit more.

The only thing I do wonder about, as it's difficult to simulate in PoB, is how much we'd be affected by the loss of flat dodge in favour of the ever-changing amount via Elusive. I think a socket could safely take Withering Step to keep the buff going pretty consistently, but it's hard to get reasonable stats on this for sure.

The other thing I think it may be difficult to sim is the loss of constant Onslaught, meaning we'll most likely have it for map clearing this way, but zero when bossing, unless they're constantly spawning adds. The Onslaught suffix could possibly be better spent elsewhere, and instead applied with MS%+Onslaught craft in the prefix, but I couldn't really see many other suffix options that would be both useful and realistic to craft. Ideally we'd have both dodge chances and Tailwind, but rolling the both of those is way too low via every crafting method to be sustainable.

This is of course just currency fodder at this point, since the actual increase in utility vs the cost of dual influencing and rolling is unlikely to be worth it unless you're rich, compared to the other gear slot upgrades, but thoughts on it would be appreciated nonetheless!

Thanks.

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