It's time to buff ranger side of tree survivability

i dont know about an increace in life but i would not mind a keystone that turns evasion into damage reduction for those who want to play something in the right side of the tree with more reliable defence say:

convert evasion to a global reduced damage taken, 2000 evasion = 1% reduced damage taken
self found league fan

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1

Last edited by caboom on Apr 15, 2020, 6:35:11 PM
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caboom wrote:
i dont know about an increace in life but i would not mind a keystone that turns evasion into damage reduction for those who want to play something in the right side of the tree with more reliable defence say:

convert evasion to a global reduced damage taken, 2000 evasion = 1% reduced damage taken


that would be way too strong

we actually have a "good" option already in the game and that is iron reflexes.
they keystone is just in the wrong place imo
"
total: ~5000 AR (with shield)
to make that AR noticeable you need a) perma granite of iron skin (pathfinder) or b) A LOT of %Armour. even on AR stacking Jugg i had issues getting more than 140% (Jugg gives 15% per asc node for free..). getting more is simply wasting damage or life. it isnt worth it.

white granite flask gives 3000. you get ~5000 from ALL your gear. this alone is silly.


Nice theory crafting but fact of the matter is i have 25k armor on my Guardian, Jug and Ascendant, 20k on my Champion and 15k on my Gladiator without flasks and without putting much effort into it. That equals 4-5 Endurance charges in terms of mitigation against strong hits and even more against large numbers of low damage hits like porcupines. Pretty sure we wouldn't have that many "porcs are imba" topics here if that ridiculous "armor is useless" notion wasn't in everyones head.

If i had access to a Carapace you can be sure i would use it for an armor build as well. 2,5k armor + dual res and 100+ life, what more could you possibly want from an armor?

Oh and regarding arctic armor, i use it on my Berserker because i haven't found a means to get his armor to decent levels yet (having a carapace would be a good start) but if i can chose between wasting 25% reservation for an effect that wears of as soon as i move (and in this game you have to move constantly, always) or alternatively wasting tons of passive points on "reduced reservation" nodes i much rather invest in some armor and use the free mana for a damage aura. In a way that skill is worse than Determination, far too much mana reservation for it's effect and then the effect is conditional on top of it.

As i said, the two of us play different games. We are so far apart with our experiences that there is no point to even talk about it.
Armor used to be considered fairly useless back when white monsters did more damage than they do now so most enemies in the game mitigated the armor reduction... which meant that stacking life was all the more important (this was during a time when a lot of life nodes didn't have secondary defenses on top of them either). That's not so much the case nowadays, a lot of trash enemies are weaker so Armor does what it was meant for which is to survive being swarmed by smaller hitting enemies and it's easier to get armor and life both.
well

- your Guardian is.. Guardian. mana->AR. it is the cheapest source of AR in the game. not surprised at all. my most heavy AR characters are all Guardians


- Jugg gets 80% of his AR from.. Nebuloh. Again - nothing surprising here. And that is a Jugg anyway: free 60% increased AR from ascendancy alone

- Ascendand was a surprise.. until i realised it is (dual) Nebuloh again

for those unaware: Nebuloh provides +500 flat AR per Endurance Charge.



so far AR-based GEAR (not weapon) provides less than 10% of your AR rating.

- Champion (Valeryion) sits at 8000 AR unbuffed. it gets higher with Fortify enabled (15000). Again - you get your AR from outside sources, this time tied to something more generic than a single weapon: a single ascendancy (giving 2000/1000 flat AR/EV most of the time) + Iron Reflexes

- Gladiator (SSThrow) again: Iron Reflexes. but this is one build with ACTUAL AR based item (shield) and lots of %inc defences from a shield (you actually take only a) obvious b) circumstancial %Armour passives).


this actually confirms what Ive said: %Armour passives are worthless and getting AR from gear (excluding ONE weapon or very high AR shield but at the damage cost) is pointless because you can cheat the system with one item and few Ascendancy nodes.

I wonder how are Slayers and Berserkers doing: a 2h build shall also use Iron Reflexes and make that EV gear actually gives more AR than AR gear?

not every build can be Nebuloh after all.


this system is stupid broken at this time, regardless of budget (on high budget you can lvl21 Grace + IR as you already have enough damage without auras anyway)

AR rating on items should be multiplied 5-fold for it to even matter. right now picking item based on 'high AR' is noob trap. your - successful - characters are more proof of that than i had hoped to show. you get AR by not getting AR via 'regular' means..



side-note:

Cluster Jewels.

Armour has its own pool of cluster jewel modifiers. These are pretty good:
on average ~30%Armour with good additional stuff per notable.

But.. and this is an enormous BUT. Small cluster jewels with Armour directly compete with ones that provide Life. My guess is that there are exactly 0 users who would pick Armour over Life on cluster jewels.. even if Armour one gives you +1 max res or can give you hybrid 8% max life/30% armour. because Life ones are even better. simple as that

adding +life small clusters was a huge mistake because that option overshadows EVERY other alternative again making AR worthless (in comparison)
Last edited by sidtherat on Apr 16, 2020, 2:51:32 AM
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sidtherat wrote:
well

not every build can be Nebuloh after all.


Im already sick of this trash dualwield nebuloch melee builds that get nothing done in endgame but frequently are showcased when telling other people to get good. Really this forum is a strange place with strange people.

Big times lol for providing Guardian with Memory Vault as an example. Its almost as someone invented it (check creation date):

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2088517

I have to agree here with Sid as i said before investing with actual gear and nodes into armour is a big times noob trap and armour is garbage due to its formular. What makes armour shine is Vaal Molten Shell and only Vaal Molten Shell.
Its alright if armour comes for free with dual Nebuloch or Memory Vault as a side condition but thats about it.
Last edited by zzang on Apr 16, 2020, 6:09:39 AM
Sid I don't know if you are missing my point on purpose or not, but I am trying to tell you that armor is well worth scaling and that it's very possible to reach significant armor values (15k+) on many builds, though not on all builds unfortunately which is a problem imo. Some are more obvious than others (Guardian/Nebuloch) as usual but fact of the matter is, it is very possible to get more than 5k armor, contrary to what you claim. And it's very much worth it to do so because even with just 15k you already have the same effect as with 4 endurance charges against high damage hits, against low damage it's even better.

The efficiency of armor nodes/gear isn't my topic and I've not addressed this topic even once in my posts because it's entirely irrelevant to my point. The goal is to have high armor, not to get high armor using only (non-Nebuloch) gear and tree nodes.

@zzang the only person here who keeps telling others to get good is you, usually by showcasing your 10k life all legacy gear gladiator.
And just for your information, for people who don't have an ass full of busted legacy gear Dual Nebuloch builds are actually a very solid choice and they can do endgame with very low budget.
I was considering to just mention my Gladiator and Champion as examples because I knew someone would go all "uuuuhhh so you have high armor on a Guardian/Nebuloch build that's so great /s" while entirely ignoring my other 2 examples and apparently I was right. What a surprise.
Last edited by Baharoth15 on Apr 16, 2020, 7:46:11 AM
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Baharoth15 wrote:
@zzang the only person here who keeps telling others to get good is you, usually by showcasing your 10k life all legacy gear gladiator.


I usually recommend people who struggle to play a Miner, Strombrand Archmage or a Spectre Summoner because those are the easiest effortless win buttons this game has to offer. Not even once i recommended anyone to do the builds i have. As you pointed out some of those buids are older than 3 years but aged pretty well.

And your Gladiator is garbage, sorry that i missed that. Champion got adressed by Sid why are you trying to waste our time?
Last edited by zzang on Apr 16, 2020, 8:14:26 AM
Please don't pick on each other, as the conversation is actually on topic and we should all behave...

@Baharoth15 doesn't acknowledge that the problem resides in flasks granting too much flat armour/evasion compared to how much equipment provides, and those values we're based on using flasks in "a moment of need".

At the current piano-flasking state, the flat stats flask would be better served by having smaller values, yet permanent - like a flat 1K armour/evasion AT MOST - and the % values in the skill tree should be addressed (if no outright further damage / armor formula balance pass can be applied).

Flat life/ES scaling also exacerbates the current armour and evasion performance, so a better emphasis on character HP scaling by leveling would be an option to address this issue, but it will also come with a mandatory balance pass...

Regardless, it's nicer to have mitigation, instead of relying on RNG and a large enough HP pool to survive...

Unfortunately, PoE relies on too many band aids, and that shows and conveys a subpar experience overall... Sadly, TencentGGG can't comprehend that not all simplification is bad, especially when they can't manage properly all their systems, other straight forward options should be used at least temporarily, but that would be the "path of least resistance", right???
Maceless: "The strongest builds are a hot knife.
The weaker builds a feather.
Both are trying to cut a square of butter, but it's 10 miles thick.
If you're playing the strongest builds, it's a test of patience.
If you're playing the weaker, it's a test of masochism."
"
sofocle10000 wrote:

At the current piano-flasking state, the flat stats flask would be better served by having smaller values, yet permanent - like a flat 1K armour/evasion AT MOST - and the % values in the skill tree should be addressed (if no outright further damage / armor formula balance pass can be applied).


You can check my Raider build: Dwellve which was designed years ago to make use of Evasion mechanics. I consider it a failed experiment because the built felt shit in endgame on phased bosses with 95% chance to evade attacks.

Instead i specced into Iron Reflexes probably the best 3 skill points in my life spent. Now i piano my flasks and get 40000 armour while in combat. The only armour pieces i got amount to ~ 1100. Then i press Vaal Molten Shell and got ~ 26000 extra hit points for roughly 20 seconds or 8000 extra hit points on regular Moltenshell with a cooldown of 4 seconds.

Since then endgame feels great and easy with VMS. Phased bosses became a joke.

What does evasion have besides disfunctionality against spells and entropy decided the big hit gonna land now?
Last edited by zzang on Apr 16, 2020, 11:25:17 AM

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