GGG, [Removed by Support]

"
.I'm a software developer. Is pseudocode a hard concept to grasp for you? Of course it's not how it looks like in the actual engine


I am really not sure you want to get into measuring contest with me on this. It is technically possible that you are more qualified developer then me, it is however statistically unlikely. And your primitive understanding of the problem makes it near impossible.
I wouldn't want to QA OP's code based on his understanding of the game's programming.
Close down the "Feedback" section. Stop pretending you care about feedback outside of reddit.

[3.10] Double DoT Toxic Rain Trapper: pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2723890
[3.10] The Forgotten Gem - Stormbind Hierophant: pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2852182
Quite some mechanics are so tightly related to the damage calculations that it would be too inconvient to deal with them outside of the damage calculation itself. Thats why it makes no sense to not see them as part of the damage calculation itself.

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Receiving_damage

Lets reason about "non damaging" ailments inflicted by hit damage for example to get a picture of the flow of the damage calculation.

We know that their effect and duration is dependant on damage dealt by attacker which is a synonym for damage taken by the defender, aka step 5 of the damage calculation scheme.

We also know that ailments are applied before the life/mana/energy shield loss of the same hit that inflicted the non damaging ailment, because else we could not for example freeze splatter full hp "not frozen before that hit" monsters with one and the same hit since freeze splatter requires the monster to be frozen before it goes 0hp.

Therefor base effect and duration for a non-damaging ailment is dependant on the intermediate result of step 5 of the damage calculation of the hit that inflicted it, yet it must be decided if its inflicted or discarded before the damage calculation is at step 7.

Then there is also the possibility that there is already the same type ailment with a stronger effect inflicted on the target so it must be decided if the newly inflicted ailment is the active one on the target or not and so on.

Thats a glimpse of what the "real damage" calculation of the game might looks like and not the "200 000k" cold damage 10 row table of PoB. Cutting some heads of that hydra might yield the divine shrine not turning the game into a slide show.

I am pretty sure that all the stuff mentioned in this thread does not apply to things affected by a divine shrine because its based on Step 5 aka damage dealt by attacker aka damage taken by defender, which seems to be always 0 for divine shrine affected things.

Damage taken by the defender and damage dealt by attacker is the same thing of the damage calculation, step 5. Yea I know, fucking wording.

that means:
-They dont care about non damaging ailments since they are about damage dealt
-They dont care about stun, since stun is about damage taken by defender
-They dont cause reflect damage since that is about damage taken by defender
-They dont dont give any leech since that is about damage taken by defender
-They dont care about life/ES/mana loss due to cannot be damaged

Some proofs for that is the narrative that I once ripped a bloodcyka build to a divine shrine and the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwKfGQJCIqs

Check out the debuff bar, he only has ignite here and then and chill because he is on chilled ground but never shock or freeze eventhough he should have been frozen or shocked at one point at least when playing like that.

Damaging ailments are different since they dont care about step 5 but just about step 1 and 2 of the damage calculation, probably creating their own damage calculation after step 2.

So a divine shrine affected monster should have a more economical damage calculation that only does:

step 1 to 2.2 for damaging ailments, on hit and on crit effects.
and step 6 for on block effects

All the other steps can be discarded without making any difference.

I doubt that they are doing that already since why the fuck else would I manage to crash a server instance when hitting with _glacial hammer_ on a divine shrine pack?

OP has written a pretty cheeky post but I understand where it comes from since I also had the worst heartstopper moments from divine shrines and shit like that turning the game into a 2 seconds per frame slideshow or crashing the instance with map gone. It should not be like that. How old is this "bug" already, 6.5 years? Come on ... its really no wonder that people become cynical about this.
















(*Tukohama voice*) "LET ME TEACH YOU... THE RULES OF CODE...."
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<739610877-3104-376.101077-1106.75103739110792103.108-5'92.9410776.>
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Last edited by bwam on Apr 25, 2020, 3:43:11 PM
"

step 1 to 2.2 for damaging ailments, on hit and on crit effects.
and step 6 for on block effects

All the other steps can be discarded without making any difference.

I doubt that they are doing that already since why the fuck else would I manage to crash a server instance when hitting with _glacial hammer_ on a divine shrine pack?

OP has written a pretty cheeky post but I understand where it comes from since I also had the worst heartstopper moments from divine shrines and shit like that turning the game into a 2 seconds per frame slideshow or crashing the instance with map gone. It should not be like that. How old is this "bug" already, 6.5 years? Come on ... its really no wonder that people become cynical about this.

All the stuff you said makes perfect sense, except that if there's one thing I know about POE it's that POE is way too complex for its own good. Initially reading your post I think to myself "hmm yeah makes sense they could probably shorten it" but I'm 100% certain there is some random mob that has a weird effect that could potentially have been spectered, or some other effect that is based on damage in a weird way, or some unique that does some effect that is applied in a weird way so as to break this assumption.

If everything you're saying is the only possible scenarios, then sure it'd work, but knowing POE I simply just have too much reason to doubt that's all there is to it.

Honestly sometimes I feel like POE is starting to become a casualty of its own creation, where all these uniques that have piled up have too many strange effects and all these weird interactions just bog the game down. I really hoped POE2 would be a separate entity from the original game, now that I know they're just running it as another 'expansion' of POE I have sufficient reason to doubt the game's future at this point. The game just needs a clean wipe.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982 on Apr 25, 2020, 6:46:20 PM
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The damage calculation is more than simple math though, it probably has lots of branching, also data shuffling and this and that going on, therefor trying to cull all that shit when its becoming pointless for most if not all builds is a reasonable approach to fix it I think.

The problem is just that it probably would require to change some pointless stuff that the game allows and as far as I know the community people rather have game freezes and crashes than not being able to poison divine shrine monsters and stupid shit like that.

Not to mention a lot of builds managed already to crash the servers via the damage calculation game logic EVEN WITHOUT divine shrine or "allies cannot die aura", like that famous poison build that deal very little damage.

That tells us 2 things:

a) Since ailments are part of the damage calculation, it means the damage calculation can fry GGGs cpus. Easily even.
b) Its not a "divine shrine/allies cannot die only" thing

tl;dr: it IS the damage calculation.



You're comparing the client to the server. The server handles hundreds of thousands connections at the same time. You don't get FPS drops if the server craps out, you'll get latency spikes.

Even if we take 500 damage calculations per hit with 300 enemies on screen, we'll get to a total of 150k. If we take it further and assume a hit on every frame we'll reach exactly 9,000,000 calculations per second.

"As an example of a modern consumer-grade processor, the Intel Core i7 8700K can perform 217,980,000,000 integer operations per second, or 32,110,000,000 floating-point operations per second."

Assuming these are all float values, we'll come to the conclusion that the performance impact would be about 0.0002802865151043289%.
Sure, there's overhead because of the OS and other stuff, but this is negligible.
The actual numbers could be 10 times as high and it still wouldn't matter one bit.

The point I'm trying to drive home here is that calculations on the CPU are extremely fast, and *should* certainly not be bottlenecking the game client.

This could be a simple bug somewhere in the code or perhaps it's bottlenecked elsewhere, who knows. Working with mutexes can be a real pain in the ass.
I mean we all have our doubts about GGG and their programming but lets be real people. This game has been out for a long time and they've optimized it like a thousand times. I'm pretty sure they aren't calculating damage when they don't need to.

/thread
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
"
Legatus1982 wrote:
I mean we all have our doubts about GGG and their programming but lets be real people. This game has been out for a long time and they've optimized it like a thousand times. I'm pretty sure they aren't calculating damage when they don't need to.

/thread


Do we know that, though?

From the 3.10.1d patch notes:
"
Improved performance by removing reflected damage calculations from monsters that would not reflect damage


I agree that GGG is always working towards optimization, but it's more than a little ridiculous to claim that this game isn't making calculations pointlessly when every other patch contains minor changes to fix exactly that.
What the game needs performance wise, is in audio overhaul. I don't think it's just server side calculations, it's also the engine firing 100 sounds per 100 ms.
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drklrd wrote:
What the game needs performance wise, is in audio overhaul. I don't think it's just server side calculations, it's also the engine firing 100 sounds per 100 ms.


I've been saying this for years. This is the worst programmed aspect of the game; audio is being rendered by the CPU and not the audio chip itself, which results in massive performance dips when a crapton of stuff is happening at the same time.

Try lowering the channel count; it'll sound like sh*t, but you'll see a massive FPS boost. Yup, that's how bad it's been designed...
Close down the "Feedback" section. Stop pretending you care about feedback outside of reddit.

[3.10] Double DoT Toxic Rain Trapper: pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2723890
[3.10] The Forgotten Gem - Stormbind Hierophant: pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2852182

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