[3.12] Remi's Toxic Rain Pathfinder | Beginner guide | All Content | Fast, Strong and Easy to play

I did a modified version of this build but turned it into a high speed lab runner, but I'm also trying to level it and see what it's capable of. I also added TR totems instead of beefing up my HoA.

I figured 6 totems dropping 30 TR pods along with my bow dropping another 5 bigger damage ones, on top of poison stacks, would ultimately be more damage. But I can't tell with PoB.

PoB doesn't seem to tell you what you're real DPS is with hundreds of TR pods and a zillion poisons all stacking on top of each other. So I can't really tell how my design measures up.

I'm just curious what some of you guy's DoT and Combined DPS looks like and what things you're doing for added survivability. Staying alive is sometimes difficult, and the one-shots happen way more often than I like.

88% evasion + phase acro + hardened scars + leech + regen + 350% movement speed + pathfinder... you would think survivability wouldn't be an issue.


Anyway... I'm pretty clueless about TR pod and poison stacking and I pretty much just winged this build as I went along, so any advice for my final projected PoB would be much appreciated. Thanks.

https://pastebin.com/73TKx1Bv
"
SkylerOG wrote:
I did a modified version of this build but turned it into a high speed lab runner, but I'm also trying to level it and see what it's capable of. I also added TR totems instead of beefing up my HoA.
Spoiler
I figured 6 totems dropping 30 TR pods along with my bow dropping another 5 bigger damage ones, on top of poison stacks, would ultimately be more damage. But I can't tell with PoB.

PoB doesn't seem to tell you what you're real DPS is with hundreds of TR pods and a zillion poisons all stacking on top of each other. So I can't really tell how my design measures up.

I'm just curious what some of you guy's DoT and Combined DPS looks like and what things you're doing for added survivability. Staying alive is sometimes difficult, and the one-shots happen way more often than I like.

88% evasion + phase acro + hardened scars + leech + regen + 350% movement speed + pathfinder... you would think survivability wouldn't be an issue.

Anyway... I'm pretty clueless about TR pod and poison stacking and I pretty much just winged this build as I went along, so any advice for my final projected PoB would be much appreciated. Thanks.

https://pastebin.com/73TKx1Bv


Disclaimer I also use a somewhat unorthodox setup, but my outlook as follows:

Spoiler
My first reaction here is that it looks kind of awkward; if I'm reading it right, pretty much all of your poison is coming from the 100%-on-hit, though TR probably isn't the greatest for that, as the hitbox for first hit is tiny, and the second hit occurs about 2sec later. On top of that, you're basically not benefiting at all from the leech, due to how damage works with TR.

The gear is kind of lacking in the DPS field (to put it mildly) which makes numbers hard to judge, but the upper right area of your skill tree could probably be cut down in favor of a set of damage focused cluster jewels followed by a Fettle which'll give back most (though not all) of the survivability you give up there.

If I'm doing my napkin math right, it'll be doing something a bit under 2.5mDPS in its current gear, which assumes 100% coverage and takes over 4 seconds to ramp up... given your fairly low number of projectiles, coverage shouldn't be a problem, unless you're fighting a moving target. I don't make a habit of calculating these out by hand in conjunction with PoB, so I'm probably way off, but any way you cut it, that number is low. I tried replacing the non-unique gear with my current kit and the number could still... use some improvement.

As far as survivability goes, I use capped dodge with perma-Fort, pDR, Divine Flesh, and pDamConversion, and I'm considering dropping the Fort since I can switch to using ToH which frees up about 80% of coldRes from my gear and the loss of Fort is somewhat balanced by the pDamConversion, plus the lessCold.
Last edited by Shani on Aug 13, 2020, 10:06:58 PM
"
Shani wrote:
Disclaimer I also use a somewhat unorthodox setup, but my outlook as follows:

Spoiler
My first reaction here is that it looks kind of awkward; if I'm reading it right, pretty much all of your poison is coming from the 100%-on-hit, though TR probably isn't the greatest for that, as the hitbox for first hit is tiny, and the second hit occurs about 2sec later. On top of that, you're basically not benefiting at all from the leech, due to how damage works with TR.

The gear is kind of lacking in the DPS field (to put it mildly) which makes numbers hard to judge, but the upper right area of your skill tree could probably be cut down in favor of a set of damage focused cluster jewels followed by a Fettle which'll give back most (though not all) of the survivability you give up there.

If I'm doing my napkin math right, it'll be doing something a bit under 2.5mDPS in its current gear, which assumes 100% coverage and takes over 4 seconds to ramp up... given your fairly low number of projectiles, coverage shouldn't be a problem, unless you're fighting a moving target. I don't make a habit of calculating these out by hand in conjunction with PoB, so I'm probably way off, but any way you cut it, that number is low. I tried replacing the non-unique gear with my current kit and the number could still... use some improvement.

As far as survivability goes, I use capped dodge with perma-Fort, pDR, Divine Flesh, and pDamConversion, and I'm considering dropping the Fort since I can switch to using ToH which frees up about 80% of coldRes from my gear and the loss of Fort is somewhat balanced by the pDamConversion, plus the lessCold.
Appreciate the feedback.

Spoiler
Did you take into consideration not only am I dropping TR pods from my bow, but also 6 totems are dropping 5 each, too? The totem damage shows as each being about a quarter my bow damage. But with 6 totems + bow that should mean I have 35 TR pods continually hitting at same time, and therefore crazy amounts of pod overlap, no?

From what I've read, the goal is to add as much duration as possible and then overlap as many TR pods as possible, which is what I thought this was doing. But maybe I'm not getting something.


That said, I bought a large cluster
and divined a Glorious Vanity until it gave Divine Flesh
(only took 2 divines, thank goodness), and am working on finding a couple medium clusters with Student Decay and Wicked Pall. I'm going to have to find 30 more chaos resist somewhere, though, but it shouldn't be too hard.

Needless to say, I dropped all my poison stuff on the tree, dumped HoA, so I could add the clusters, and moved a few things around.

And the difference on PoB is only minor. DoT DPS says it went up about only 15%, however I will have added DF and capped chaos resist.

But after seeing Remi's DoT DPS around 5M and mine around 1.2M, I expected it to go up a lot more.

I guess the big thing is I'm still centering a lot of this char around movement speed so I can continue using it as my lab runner, too. Hence, I'm using Grace and Haste (with my watcher's eye) instead of Malevolence. And I'm missing out on quite a bit of Damage Over Time and Damage Over Time Multiplier. But I'm just not sure how to get those and keep up my Evasion and Accuracy ratings. I need Evasion to keep my movement speed (Queen of Forest), and 86%+ evade is great for survability. And I noticed Remi has only 86% hit chance, which is mind-boggling and not sure why it's like that, unless I'm missing something.

It would be great to get this up to where DoT DPS is around 3M or so, but I don't think I can without drastically altering the build and losing most of my movement speed.


Also, what's "Fettle"? And how are you getting perma-Fortify? I sorta have it with Hardened Scars, because I'm literally running my 2 Enduring Hybrid flasks about every 4 seconds one after another, but that's obviously not permanent. How'd you cap your dodge, too?

Would love to see your PoB.



Thanks again for the help.
"
SkylerOG wrote:
Spoiler
Did you take into consideration not only am I dropping TR pods from my bow, but also 6 totems are dropping 5 each, too? The totem damage shows as each being about a quarter my bow damage. But with 6 totems + bow that should mean I have 35 TR pods continually hitting at same time, and therefore crazy amounts of pod overlap, no?

From what I've read, the goal is to add as much duration as possible and then overlap as many TR pods as possible, which is what I thought this was doing. But maybe I'm not getting something.


That said, I bought a large cluster
and divined a Glorious Vanity until it gave Divine Flesh
(only took 2 divines, thank goodness), and am working on finding a couple medium clusters with Student Decay and Wicked Pall. I'm going to have to find 30 more chaos resist somewhere, though, but it shouldn't be too hard.

Needless to say, I dropped all my poison stuff on the tree, dumped HoA, so I could add the clusters, and moved a few things around.

And the difference on PoB is only minor. DoT DPS says it went up about only 15%, however I will have added DF and capped chaos resist.

But after seeing Remi's DoT DPS around 5M and mine around 1.2M, I expected it to go up a lot more.

I guess the big thing is I'm still centering a lot of this char around movement speed so I can continue using it as my lab runner, too. Hence, I'm using Grace and Haste (with my watcher's eye) instead of Malevolence. And I'm missing out on quite a bit of Damage Over Time and Damage Over Time Multiplier. But I'm just not sure how to get those and keep up my Evasion and Accuracy ratings. I need Evasion to keep my movement speed (Queen of Forest), and 86%+ evade is great for survability. And I noticed Remi has only 86% hit chance, which is mind-boggling and not sure why it's like that, unless I'm missing something.

It would be great to get this up to where DoT DPS is around 3M or so, but I don't think I can without drastically altering the build and losing most of my movement speed.

Also, what's "Fettle"? And how are you getting perma-Fortify? I sorta have it with Hardened Scars, because I'm literally running my 2 Enduring Hybrid flasks about every 4 seconds one after another, but that's obviously not permanent. How'd you cap your dodge, too?

Would love to see your PoB.

Thanks again for the help.


Spoiler
How confident are you about that calculation of a quarter of the damage being your totems? Straight off the top, your two totems supports are giving '51% less damage', plus your damage relative to your main TR is being further shorted by with Wither support. After all that, they only attack at 2/5th the rate that you do, plus the summoning time.

You're not wrong about the duration and overlap being important, but part of the problem is your base damage right now is just so low from investing in a lot of tertiary elements. For example, replacing your free Despair amulet with a 'normal' +2lvl/16%cDoTM one gives an 18% increase in DPS according to PoB. As to why they matter, they're both crucial in different ways: Overlap is a straight multiplier increase based on number of pods that that. If your only have 50% coverage, then you're only dealing damage with half of them, cutting your effective DPS in half, regardless of what any calculators say. Duration works on a similar fashion since this build is based off the DoT: Double the duration, double the damage... assuming the target stays in it and lives the entire time.

But to increase the raw damage dealt, you also also want to increase the gem levels, +chaos/DoTM, +%chaosDam, +%AoEdam, +%dam. (May be a few that slipped my mind but the DoTM ones are huge.)

DF is a pretty big defensive layer, though I personally find it's somewhat costly in terms of passives. (6 points on my tree. Thank goodness I actually have somewhat useful passives on mine too.)

I get evade for QotF, but why are you worried about Hit Chance? TR's DoT doesn't rely on hit chance to actually, er, 'hit'; that only matters for the initial volley and maybe when the pods 'pop' at the end (neither of which are major sources of damage for us).

You might want to work in Flesh and Stone somewhere; the blindness makes a huge difference (mental estimate says that a 15% hitrate will drop to about 2%), and taking 10% less ranged damage isn't bad either.

Fettle is a monstrous small cluster jewel notable; a T1 jewel will give 18%/52life for a 3 point investment, +1 for the socket. (A T2 will give 46 life and cost a lot less.)

As far as Fortify and evade, you might want to rebuild your flasks: Use a Foreboding Hybrid flask instead of Enduring to avoid the 30% duration penalty, and an Enduring Eternal mana flask to keep your mana up. Bloodletting is useless because literally over 99% of the damage you deal is not attack damage. (Or at least, it shouldn't be. My PoB from a level back says it's .2%.) If you raise your base DPS a bit, you can get rid of that Sulphur Flask in favor of a a Jade/Stibnite flask for extra Evasion.

Flasks are one of the places where I have a big deviation from Remi's build, putting 6 points pulled mostly from life mods into it to get flask duration, additional flask charges, reduced flask charge use, etc. The upshot to this is that I have great flask uptime and don't need to take -MalevolenceRes on my amulet to fit the auras I want; the downside is a bit of lost life. Which considering I'm mostly eva/dodge, doesn't make too much of a difference as I'm liable to die if I take a big hit anyways.

My dodge is capped through Phase/Acro, Lunaris, Quartz Flask (when necessary; otherwise I use a DPS flask), non-CJ armor (not recommended unless you make this deviation on purpose), Elusive, and a monster pair of 26% dodge boots. All in all, I spend all of my time in combat well overcapped.

Late edit: Oh, and one thing I have to clarify-- some of my thoughts were based on the assumption that you really wanted to keep doing the poison damage part. If you're not doing the poison damage thing anymore, then you should have plenty of passives for the upper right section of the tree, which is a pretty good area as a whole.
Last edited by Shani on Aug 14, 2020, 6:54:38 PM
"
SkylerOG wrote:
Anyway... I'm pretty clueless about TR pod and poison stacking and I pretty much just winged this build as I went along, so any advice for my final projected PoB would be much appreciated. Thanks.

https://pastebin.com/73TKx1Bv

Didn't look too much into this but at first glance it looks like you're trying to do waaaay too many things with the build. Usually when people do this, they end up making below-average versions of all the things they want to do.

Your build is trying to
- Use TR(not poison)
- Use totems
- Use HoAg
- Use QotF

That and (unoptimal?)gear such as 2 Essence worm rings, an Impresence, Bow without highest APS base and only 2 good mods for TR.

Imo, you should pick like one or two of the list and focus on them.

If you want more info or suggestions, I can continue.
I like playing builds that can do every map mod.
Hi, I'm trying this build out, considering it as league starter in 3.12

Act 5 right now, no problems so far.

Just wanted to let you know (if you don't know already) that the guide mixes some things up in different sections, e.g.:

"4.0 Ascendancy explained", you go for Nature's Adrenaline first, in "7.2 whole leveling" you take Nature's Reprisal first.

In "7.1" you take Herald of Agony, in "7.2" it's not even mentioned.
In "7.1" you take Swift Affliction over Mirage Archer, explaining to take Mirrage Archer when you got a Quill Rain. In "7.2" you take Mirrage Archer since Act 4 i guess.

Not that bad for an experienced player, but i guess for beginner it might be confusing :)

Regards!
Last edited by Bisrob on Aug 15, 2020, 6:13:21 AM
Hey Thanks again for this really nice guide. I have a little Question regarding the Carcass Jack: So if i had to chose between a +2 projectile carcass and a 1+ socketed gems carcass, what would be better?
I have ToxicRain 21/23, Empower 4, all Sopports are 20% and Awakened if possible (only lvl 5 and 20 tough).

Thanks :)
"
Mockusmax wrote:
Hey Thanks again for this really nice guide. I have a little Question regarding the Carcass Jack: So if i had to chose between a +2 projectile carcass and a 1+ socketed gems carcass, what would be better?
I have ToxicRain 21/23, Empower 4, all Sopports are 20% and Awakened if possible (only lvl 5 and 20 tough).

Thanks :)

In this case, +1 would be better. Both will give you the same added levels to TR. The difference is +2 proj would only add levels to awakened vicious proj giving you 2% more damage as opposed to a +1 socketed which would give everything socketed a +1 giving you 3% more damage and if you got a 21 mirage archer, it's damage penalty is lowered from 31% to 30%. Pretty minor for most people but it is what it is.
I like playing builds that can do every map mod.
"
Mazino_Urek wrote:
"
SkylerOG wrote:
Anyway... I'm pretty clueless about TR pod and poison stacking and I pretty much just winged this build as I went along, so any advice for my final projected PoB would be much appreciated. Thanks.

https://pastebin.com/73TKx1Bv

Didn't look too much into this but at first glance it looks like you're trying to do waaaay too many things with the build. Usually when people do this, they end up making below-average versions of all the things they want to do.

Your build is trying to
- Use TR(not poison)
- Use totems
- Use HoAg
- Use QotF

That and (unoptimal?)gear such as 2 Essence worm rings, an Impresence, Bow without highest APS base and only 2 good mods for TR.

Imo, you should pick like one or two of the list and focus on them.

If you want more info or suggestions, I can continue.
I really appreciate it.

Spoiler
I've made quite a few changes upon you guy's advice already. Dumped HoAg and all the poison stuff, added a full cluster jewel setup (can only do one so far until I get more levels), and added F&S and divine flesh along with capped chaos res.

Survivability has jumped tremendously, and mobs are just melting now. I'm up to around 2M DoT DPS on my main bow TR, and STILL have 350% movement speed (again, this is also my lab runner char, so I'm consciously compromising a lot to keep that).

I'm working on trying to upgrade my bow and quiver and get more DoT/DoTM, but it's crazy expensive and appears to be in short supply with the stats/resists I need even on Standard.

I'm keeping the TR/Withering Touch ballista totems on my 6L setup, however. Most people appear to have a straight Wither spell totem setup on a 4L, and then don't really take advantage of their second 6L, so I'm not quite understanding that. Ballista totems cast fast as hell and I can get around 280k DoT DPS per totem on 5 totems and still easily apply wither to everything. That's a lot of supplemental DPS, and because they cast so fast, they really don't interrupt my bow TR.

I know I'm missing out a lot by not having Malevolence and using Impresence to run Despair as an aura instead of on a ring (on hit), but because this is also my lab runner, I really need Grace + Haste (massive speed boost with my watcher's eye). So I'll just have to settle without it. The DPS appears quite adequate already and I still have quite a bit more optimizing to do.


That all said, things have REALLY smoothed out due to the changes. Ran some average T16's last night with no deaths and bosses drop with ease now.

Here is the updated PoB: https://pastebin.com/VnV83vk2

Thanks again for all the help.
I don't get why you're trying to make a DoT chara if one of your goals is lab running. You want to go fast but for damage you picked a skill that slowly deals damage over time. That being said, I've never made a dedicated lab runner so maybe I'm missing something?

Also, I use my other 6l for auras. This gives me way more damage than any totem setup could. 4 auras that need to be linked to enlighten 4 and the last one is a portal cause I don't want to carry portal scrolls.

And as for the updated pob, if I were you, I'd drop mirage archer for efficacy. With your bow, your mirage archer has an APS of 1.84. Imo this is way too low for it to actually be effective. Also maybe drop the blasphemy setup for a witchfirew brew. Surely this would be more damage.
I like playing builds that can do every map mod.

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