Harvest could be worst league ever?

I'm enjoying the league.

The only thing i would have liked is if instead of just clicking and it poops out seeds. it would spawn randoms Monster's/%Chance of Boss that dropped the seeds.


"
SeCKSEgai wrote:
Chris said it was an "experiment" - so the negative feedback is data for his said experiment. For those around for synthesis and beastiary you can't be surprised at their disgust since plenty was already said and done during those leagues - rehashing the aspects most people already showed their displeasure with.

You can have a league work that doesn't fall into the "zoom-zoom" category if you pay enough attention to player feedback.

As for the salt - I'm pretty annoyed that my cycloners were ruined, and that's what killed most of my desire to play before even considering the league. I even finally got my first headhunter only to end up throwing in it the stash because nothing that could use it does enough damage anymore to make it worth using. I missed the window to truly enjoy the brand's (removal of "shotgun" effect) and the only build I've played in league that's survived the onslaught of nerfs is a CA/TA trickster variant.

The biggest build "killer" has probably been the monster buffs since those health buffs have pushed the minimum dps threshold much higher than when I started with abyss. The atlas revision no longer makes skipping bosses practical so you can't just be a waveclear machine, you need to be able to kill them without taking forever and a day too.


You and me, Sir, clearly have different definitions of "feedback". I my head, "feedback" is productive. Whine and vomit aren't feedback, they're a result of something else.

We clearly have different definitions of "ruined" too. I've made 4 cycloners the last two leagues, and none of them seem to be "ruined". 3 of them got nerfed, and one of them would require some respec'ing/rework to get stun immunity. But ruined? Well...

Anyhow, I agree with you that some nerfs and some buffs (and the lack of some nerfs/buffs) are strange. But nerfs come, nerfs go, buffs come, buffs go. This will ALWAYS be the case. I would've thought that people that can't handle these META-shift would be long gone - a long time ago.

Phrazz has changed his ways. Forget his past, embrace the present.
up to infinite this post
I loved Path of Exile.
I do not love Path of RNG.
I am retired now from the game since 3.11 due to Bloom affecting my Health.
Save our game, remove all of the constant RNG and allow us to turn off Bloom
Last edited by Maelstromicus on Jun 23, 2020, 5:51:48 PM
This is not letting me post properly.

"
For those around for synthesis and beastiary you can't be surprised at their disgust since plenty was already said and done during those leagues - rehashing the aspects most people already showed their displeasure with.

You can have a league work that doesn't fall into the "zoom-zoom" category if you pay enough attention to player feedback.



Ahhhh, I think this hits how I feel about it all on the head.

It's not so much the whole (terrible imho) idea behind this league, it's more the fact that it's more of a case of "here we go again".


Bestiary and Synthesis were both leagues that attempted to introduced another method of crafting. Bestiary used killing mobs to do so, and it was mainly the poor initial implementation that really went down badly. By the end, it was bearable because it at least still involved some "hack and slash". GGG got plenty of feedback about this new type of crafting, not much of it positive, yet they included it in the main game for some inexplicable reason. I don't know about you guys but I only ever use it for Aspects and adding Flask suffixes.

Then we had Synthesis, which tried to introduce another radical new approach - using a puzzle game to get to gated crafting. This went down like a lead balloon. Not much of it was included into the core game, and just as well. It was a fiasco.


Fast Forward to now. This is what I find more distressing than the actual league itself; GGG appear to learn absolutely nothing from past failures.
All feedback from those 2 previous non-successes appear to have been forgotten and ignored.
We now have yet another crafting league, nothing wrong with that idea. Problem is, the crafting is once again gated behind another non-killing pointlessly complicated puzzle like mini game. Why?

This is an ARPG. It is mainly about "hack and slash". We don't load up the game to play Sims. Learn some lessons from previous leagues for Gawd's sake GGG and stop repeating past mistakes all the time.


For instance, they could have introduced some new crafting, but gated it behind a Bestiary type 2.0, so at least you have to kill things to unlock crafts. Most of us don't want to be solving puzzles, growing things, figuring out complicated mazes, and generally doing things OTHER THAN "hack and slash" all to get to yet another bloody RNG portal slot machine of crafting.



So, to those who say "you haven't even tried it", I will attempt to answer in a civil manner as to why.

1. I Do not like Sims type games, I don't play any of them.
2. In a Kill-game, I do not want to keep stopping to do puzzles/solve maths problems. Doing taxes and my bank account is more than enough mathematics equations for me in RL these days.
3. I don't like Maze Puzzles. I do not want to be planning out my own mazes (Synthesis, this garden).
4. I don't like farming games. I live in a small village in SE England. I am surrounded by real life farms. If I wanted to be a farmer, I could put on wellies and do it for real. I have never stepped foot on any of the nearby farms!
5. I Do not want to engage in having to do all of 1-4 simply to get to a glorified slot machine type situation.
6. I only ever occasionally play Slot Machines on my phone when on the train/bus etc. I do NOT want to be pressing buttons for random outcomes in the middle of my "hack and slash" game.
7. I HATE RNG.
8. IF I have to jump through hoops to see "new" trades, I want to UNLOCK THOSE so I can grind the mats and do them again RELIABLY. I DO NOT WANT TO SUFFER 1-7 only to find that I cannot repeat it again simply by providing materials, having "learnt" that craft.


There, I think that sums up why this is the FIRST league since I started this game that I haven't even made a character in.

Cheers :)
I loved Path of Exile.
I do not love Path of RNG.
I am retired now from the game since 3.11 due to Bloom affecting my Health.
Save our game, remove all of the constant RNG and allow us to turn off Bloom
Last edited by Maelstromicus on Jun 23, 2020, 5:53:58 PM
"
WTFSpeeder wrote:
If you really think Harvest is worse than:

Essence
Perandus
Synthesis


then you must really be dumb


I didn't play in Essence, but I did play during Perandus and Synthesis, and this league is definitely worse than either of them. Synthesis was boring but not shallow, and Perandus was shallow but not too boring. Harvest, on the other hand, has somehow managed to be both aggressively boring and shallow at the same time. I'd rather play Talisman or pre-update Bestiary than this.
"
WTFSpeeder wrote:
If you really think Harvest is worse than:

Essence
Perandus
Synthesis


then you must really be dumb



Essence was from a simpler time, when you just had a pretty basic thing added to the game and they called it a league. How is Essence in your mind worse than say, Torment? Or Shrines? Or rogue exiles? They are all the same caliber in terms of content, that is to say not much of it.

The only way this league would be better than Perandus, is if Perandus dropped a few coins each map, and then every 5-6 maps you had a CHANCE at Cadiro spawning. At least you got to interact with the mechanic every map in Perandus, unlike this shit show

Synthesis was too complex, and sucked badly, but again at least you got to interact with the league and kill shit regularly for XP and loot while doing so.

When a league is so bad that they would've been better off doing a rerun of Legacy, you know they messed up.
"
Phrazz wrote:
"
SeCKSEgai wrote:
Chris said it was an "experiment" - so the negative feedback is data for his said experiment. For those around for synthesis and beastiary you can't be surprised at their disgust since plenty was already said and done during those leagues - rehashing the aspects most people already showed their displeasure with.

You can have a league work that doesn't fall into the "zoom-zoom" category if you pay enough attention to player feedback.

As for the salt - I'm pretty annoyed that my cycloners were ruined, and that's what killed most of my desire to play before even considering the league. I even finally got my first headhunter only to end up throwing in it the stash because nothing that could use it does enough damage anymore to make it worth using. I missed the window to truly enjoy the brand's (removal of "shotgun" effect) and the only build I've played in league that's survived the onslaught of nerfs is a CA/TA trickster variant.

The biggest build "killer" has probably been the monster buffs since those health buffs have pushed the minimum dps threshold much higher than when I started with abyss. The atlas revision no longer makes skipping bosses practical so you can't just be a waveclear machine, you need to be able to kill them without taking forever and a day too.


You and me, Sir, clearly have different definitions of "feedback". I my head, "feedback" is productive. Whine and vomit aren't feedback, they're a result of something else.

We clearly have different definitions of "ruined" too. I've made 4 cycloners the last two leagues, and none of them seem to be "ruined". 3 of them got nerfed, and one of them would require some respec'ing/rework to get stun immunity. But ruined? Well...

Anyhow, I agree with you that some nerfs and some buffs (and the lack of some nerfs/buffs) are strange. But nerfs come, nerfs go, buffs come, buffs go. This will ALWAYS be the case. I would've thought that people that can't handle these META-shift would be long gone - a long time ago.



Negative doesn't mean unproductive. Not everyone will like everything, but not liking something doesn't make it useless feedback - over dramaticing sure, but that's not the same either.

The reason I say my cycloner's are ruined is this. My herald stacker effectively cost more than double (one jewel alone encompassed pretty much the entire value. I just happened to find it. One awakened gem I could have used was at least half that, the other even twice as much. Yet my cycloner while more prone to death was better suited for single target.

Post-Harvest, cyclone lost stun immunity (significant) but far more important, tree changes on top of the dual wield nerf compiled to dramatically hit their output.

The dual-wielding hollow palm had split personality reduced to 2, removing a huge stat boost. The thing was, even though he was my best boss killer, his performance wasn't game-breaking at all, especially given the health buffs to bosses further increased with the awakening bonus. Other tree changes only added to this, and the nerf to vaal molten shell removed his primary protection against one-shot deaths against multiple hard hitting targets.

My legacy starforge slayer was hit hardest by the crit changes on the tree. So where hollow palm lost sources of stats, my two hander had to compensate for the critical changes. He wasn't hit as hard, but he also dealt less damage to begin with.

It isn't one nerf that killed the appeal of these characters, but a combination of them that ruins them for me. It wasn't just staring at the numbers, but running them through some tests to see how noticeable all these changes were.

My hollow palm died over 200 times paving the way to 40/40 in delirium, and literally did almost all the work. It wasn't like he was outright obliterating key bosses, its just that you could actually see the health bar move at a speed not slower than molasses.

I didn't play the build because I liked it so much as the game dynamic pushed me in that direction. I needed something that could reliably defeat the heavy duty bosses - but in reality he was barely strong enough to do 100% t16 white maps.

The herald stacker on the other hand may not have hit bosses as hard but the only thing that really killed her was freeze frame performance.

Everyone accepted the herald stack setup wasn't going to survive into harvest. But hurting melee in a patch promoting two-handers makes it appear as they don't grasp what they're actually balancing.

Or maybe they do and simply want to force gameplay in a specific direction, or at least away from one. We're all familiar with nerfs making the rounds, but its not like this is the first league used build to be scarred. It just gets old seeing something finally find a good place and instead of elevating other builds/skills to a similar level they just pull it back down like another crab in a boiling pot.

Yep, totally over league play.
"
Anton__Chigur wrote:
Perandus league and torment league are easily the worst ever.


Perandus was way better than Harvest, that's for sure
"Path of Exile's engine is currently modern, lean and fast." - Chris Wilson, September 19th, 2019

"It looks like we broke something with 3.10.0. We don't know what it is yet." - Bex, March 16th, 2020
"
WTFSpeeder wrote:
If you really think Harvest is worse than:

Essence
Perandus
Synthesis


then you must really be dumb



Worst league was Talisman. Nothing more mind-numbing than collecting 125 tier one talismans for a tier 3 one, and looking for 25 stone circles for a chance to get another crappy talisman.

Synthesis was also pretty bad due to poor implementation.

Essence was an early league and was pretty fun still as it involved killing mobs.

Perandus was actually really fun with Cadiro abuse in Solaris Temple 1 until they fixed it, and even afterwards Perandus chests provided some form of combat.

Harvest - in my personal opinion of a PoE beta player with eight year experience - is the worst league of them all. I am still playing it, but basically it is a standard league with minimal new content. And the massive player drop-off kills trade and makes entire experience bad.

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