Harvest could be worst league ever?

The way i see it,a new league must offer some really exciting mechanics and encounters to get me going through unveiling all the veiled items one more time.
Can we craft mirror tier items this league?
Sure. But for what?
To play in standard?
They could just add random encounters on maps with these plant-monsters and it would be far more interesting.
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kuciol wrote:


If i was wrong you would be easily able to prove my claims as wrong. As it stands all you can say "no its not" without any proof. I started playing during closed beta, i know my shit. I could do everything but as it stands i dont really care and i dont have time to do it so i would rather do something that i actualy like.

0.32% of players have completed 36 challenges and earned the Delirium Wings.
1.32% of players have completed 36 challenges and earned the Metamorph Portal Effect.

Thats how relevant this crowd is. This is nobody in grand scheme of things. So small portion of the community even attempts such content that its not relevant. What would be even the point? Im not a judge as you called it, im stating simple, logical facts.


You can't prove someone wrong when they've already convinced himself/herself they're right. Explanations were provided, your lack of working game knowledge meant you just disregarded it.

Playing since closed beta doesn't mean what you think it does, there are players that have surpassed me in their first league, and I've gotten farther than most beta players. Beta means you were there for the beginning, it doesn't mean you have kept up with the constant changes over the years.

But bringing up percentages, most players don't even care enough or enjoy it enough to progress to the mapping stage, so if they simply balanced around the majority there would be no nerfs because most would never get far enough to necessitate it.

Of course, when you factor in that the more dedicated players (and most likely to invest money) are the "minority" doing end game, then yeah they matter.

The herald stack of Delirium would still exist if this small minority of players didn't matter. Most of the player base could never afford even the initial investment. But again, that small minority matters a lot more than you want to give them credit for.
Yep, totally over league play.
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SeCKSEgai wrote:

You can't prove someone wrong when they've already convinced himself/herself they're right. Explanations were provided, your lack of working game knowledge meant you just disregarded it.


All you did was cry how much it costs to make your chars effective and how in game market matters in balancing when its BS that you even confirmed yourself in this post saying that most players couldnt afford herald stacking.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Playing since closed beta doesn't mean what you think it does, there are players that have surpassed me in their first league, and I've gotten farther than most beta players. Beta means you were there for the beginning, it doesn't mean you have kept up with the constant changes over the years.


But i did. The fact that i dont do such content regularly only reinforces my point that in grand scheme of things super top endgame is irrelevant. You did nothing to prove that statement wrong.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

But bringing up percentages, most players don't even care enough or enjoy it enough to progress to the mapping stage, so if they simply balanced around the majority there would be no nerfs because most would never get far enough to necessitate it.


I already specified what needs to be considered in order to make nerfs, you stick to player count ignoring everything else. It seems like you know you are wrong but cant stand to admit it so you disregard any points made that you cant attack directly or me personally.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Of course, when you factor in that the more dedicated players (and most likely to invest money) are the "minority" doing end game, then yeah they matter.

The herald stack of Delirium would still exist if this small minority of players didn't matter. Most of the player base could never afford even the initial investment. But again, that small minority matters a lot more than you want to give them credit for.


Again i told you what needs to be considered for balancing. Power, accessibility, clunkyness, ease of use, ease of replication, gear dependency, prep needed and many more factors.

I feel like this discussion is going nowhere. Game is not and will not be balanced around the hardest possible content because that would be stupid thing to do. You may not agree with this but thats a fact. Unless you provide any evidence that it isnt the case i consider this discussion finished.
Last edited by kuciol on Jul 23, 2020, 5:22:42 AM
SeCKSEgai wrote:

Of course, when you factor in that the more dedicated players (and most likely to invest money) are the "minority" doing end game, then yeah they matter.

The herald stack of Delirium would still exist if this small minority of players didn't matter. Most of the player base could never afford even the initial investment. But again, that small minority matters a lot more than you want to give them credit for.
-----

Just think if the 1% wasn't in the game (I'm talking trade league)...And I am not talking about the flippers - just the players. Can you imagine how expensive the best gear would be (Harvest league aside) if people were not destroying the endgame and filling the league with Cospri's, Starforges, Shav's etc? How about the best helm enchants? etc.

When you start thinking about the league as a whole the best players (in a general sense) lift up the power of everyone. That's why I had no issues with Herald Stacking or any previous meta builds like Winter Orb, Cyclone etc. that were OP. Having a revolving meta is genius by GGG to keep people playing the game - GGG is only mildly interested about balancing as a way to get the most players engaged in the game. They nerfed Heralds because the cost of the builds were prohibitive for most gamers and the outcry was bad for business. So I agree with Secksegai about this and also the impact of the 1%.
That is a straw argument.
Nerfs are made when a mechanic trivializes content. Herald stackers could tank Sirus' storms. The cost of the build had no impact on the decision.
Endgame is built around the 1% of players but not for the reasons you quote. It is so because otherwise players wouldn't have any incentive to keep playing after reaching a certain treshold. The rest of the game is built around the average player so much that you can confortably finish the 10 acts with whatever gear you can find.
I seriously doubt that from a business standpoint the opinion of that 1% counts that much more because financially they contribute less than the rest of the players. It is not financially sound to build a business model around people that don't earn you that much money.
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That is a straw argument.
Nerfs are made when a mechanic trivializes content. Herald stackers could tank Sirus' storms. The cost of the build had no impact on the decision.
Endgame is built around the 1% of players but not for the reasons you quote. It is so because otherwise players wouldn't have any incentive to keep playing after reaching a certain treshold. The rest of the game is built around the average player so much that you can confortably finish the 10 acts with whatever gear you can find.
I seriously doubt that from a business standpoint the opinion of that 1% counts that much more because financially they contribute less than the rest of the players. It is not financially sound to build a business model around people that don't earn you that much money.


People love to complain about stuff they don't understand.

Could a herald stacker be built to tank the storms, sure. Did they do that by nature, nope. There were two primary variants, the extra tanky templar guardian side and the faster casting scion. The scion sacrificed defense for more offensive power, and to really start seeing it shine you were investing over 90ex in just two awakened gems alone - something I did not do because that's just too much to lose to depreciation once the league ends (if you actually care about standard).

I wasn't saying that the 1% counts more - but explaining that the reason they're valid is that plenty of decisions are made with them specifically in mind. If the 1% didn't matter, then there's no reason to touch the build because they don't have an impact and no one outside of that could really afford to build it. But as all of us knew it wasn't going to survive post league, it's clear that despite so few falling into that 1% or so they clearly have more impact than Kuciol was giving them credit for in his previous post.

Context matters.
Yep, totally over league play.
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kuciol wrote:
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SeCKSEgai wrote:

You can't prove someone wrong when they've already convinced himself/herself they're right. Explanations were provided, your lack of working game knowledge meant you just disregarded it.


All you did was cry how much it costs to make your chars effective and how in game market matters in balancing when its BS that you even confirmed yourself in this post saying that most players couldnt afford herald stacking.

"
SeCKSEgai wrote:

Playing since closed beta doesn't mean what you think it does, there are players that have surpassed me in their first league, and I've gotten farther than most beta players. Beta means you were there for the beginning, it doesn't mean you have kept up with the constant changes over the years.


But i did. The fact that i dont do such content regularly only reinforces my point that in grand scheme of things super top endgame is irrelevant. You did nothing to prove that statement wrong.

"
SeCKSEgai wrote:

But bringing up percentages, most players don't even care enough or enjoy it enough to progress to the mapping stage, so if they simply balanced around the majority there would be no nerfs because most would never get far enough to necessitate it.


I already specified what needs to be considered in order to make nerfs, you stick to player count ignoring everything else. It seems like you know you are wrong but cant stand to admit it so you disregard any points made that you cant attack directly or me personally.

"
SeCKSEgai wrote:

Of course, when you factor in that the more dedicated players (and most likely to invest money) are the "minority" doing end game, then yeah they matter.

The herald stack of Delirium would still exist if this small minority of players didn't matter. Most of the player base could never afford even the initial investment. But again, that small minority matters a lot more than you want to give them credit for.


Again i told you what needs to be considered for balancing. Power, accessibility, clunkyness, ease of use, ease of replication, gear dependency, prep needed and many more factors.

I feel like this discussion is going nowhere. Game is not and will not be balanced around the hardest possible content because that would be stupid thing to do. You may not agree with this but thats a fact. Unless you provide any evidence that it isnt the case i consider this discussion finished.


Sorry I was too busy crying. But seriously, its crazy but not unsurprising to see that level of arrogance from someone who hasn't actually completed the content. Like you can't balance for the top end content, but how is one supposed to do it? You can't do sirus and you're clearly not alone. But how is the most difficult content supposed to be done? It takes dramatically more power to do t16+100% delirium, but shouldn't it still be possible to be done by a small portion? If it's in the game, it's meant to be possible right?

But you're right the discussion has gone no where - when some guy is convinced he "knows his shit" and hasn't even beaten sirus it's clear what they believe and what they know do not line up.
Yep, totally over league play.
"
SeCKSEgai wrote:

Sorry I was too busy crying. But seriously, its crazy but not unsurprising to see that level of arrogance from someone who hasn't actually completed the content. Like you can't balance for the top end content, but how is one supposed to do it? You can't do sirus and you're clearly not alone. But how is the most difficult content supposed to be done? It takes dramatically more power to do t16+100% delirium, but shouldn't it still be possible to be done by a small portion? If it's in the game, it's meant to be possible right?

But you're right the discussion has gone no where - when some guy is convinced he "knows his shit" and hasn't even beaten sirus it's clear what they believe and what they know do not line up.


Ive never even once in whole discussion used anything remotely from my experience. Every single thing i said has nothing to do with how i play the game. To answer your stupid question for 10th time, yes doing such content should be possible but it doesnt mean its the point of balancing. Never was and never will be. Content beyond certain point is irrelevant to balancing, if you cant grasp such simple concept then come back in 10 years when you grow up.
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kuciol wrote:
To answer your stupid question for 10th time, yes doing such content should be possible but it doesnt mean its the point of balancing. Never was and never will be. Content beyond certain point is irrelevant to balancing, if you cant grasp such simple concept then come back in 10 years when you grow up.


So you answer as a game designer working for GGG or is this just made up bullshit i read there?
Why do people keep feeding trolls. You guys do know you are butting your heads against a brick wall, right?

You can never hold a reasoned discussion with a zealot, ever. Zealotry is a sickness, it cannot be defeated with logic. These WK's in here all remind me of zealots, and every game community has them sadly. I honestly think that they all live in hope that one day their zealous defences will be rewarded with something from the game's producers. Although, I have to say, in all my years gaming I've yet to see that actually happen. Yet still they pursue their mindless and often illogical defences, surely that is the pure definition of zealotry?
I loved Path of Exile.
I do not love Path of RNG.
I am retired now from the game since 3.11 due to Bloom affecting my Health.
Save our game, remove all of the constant RNG and allow us to turn off Bloom

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