Harvest could be worst league ever?

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Walltrigger wrote:
Play d3 then. There is zero feel of reward from dropped items. Crafting gives you a sense of progression and the feel that you improved your character. Its not fun playing the slot machine a million times just to get a 5% upgrade. You cant tell me endgame grind for loot is fun.

im seeing you like crafting and you like to tell other people what they should play, i can recommend you to go play Path of Crafting mobile app, i play it sometimes sitting on the toilet bowl, this is the game for you.

d3 has extremely limited amount of mods and general variety, it also has augments and paragon, paragon is the main source of power in the endgame, etc. its no point to talk about d3, its a different story.

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Walltrigger wrote:
Harvest wasnt liked because of the garden and basically no added loot and monsters in maps, not because of the crafting.

not going to argue, those reasons you've highlighted are real, and i've talked about them even in this topic, few dozens pages ago.

i am talking now about more core problems that this league hasnt solved, but actually amplified. my opinion is that additional deterministic crafting options are good for the game, but you shouldnt be able to create best gear from the scratch. crafting should be limited in power, while a combat should reward players with high/top tier mods.

i get it that some players are pricing steady flow of their gear progression, question is: should they progress by crafting OR by killing mobs and picking up loot in ACTION role-playing game?

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kekoyaso wrote:

nowadays new era players WANT END GAME GEARS without effort nearly without play
as all we old school arpg players want HUNT to LOOT not craft to play ARPG means u have to hunt hack n slash loot to gear but this crafting mechanincs slowly killing poe

i agree to some extend. this league is a huge mistake, it gave an ability to create extremely good gear to the BAD PLAYERS, just by following primitive steps from internet guides, just by planting and collecting seeds. undermining mapping, undermining endgame. you can farm seeds for a few days in t11 maps and you're good to go. what a [censored] disgrace. this league is a disaster almost in every way possible.
Last edited by Tainted_Fate on Aug 13, 2020, 10:12:17 AM
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Tainted_Fate wrote:
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Walltrigger wrote:
Play d3 then. There is zero feel of reward from dropped items. Crafting gives you a sense of progression and the feel that you improved your character. Its not fun playing the slot machine a million times just to get a 5% upgrade. You cant tell me endgame grind for loot is fun.

im seeing you like crafting and you like to tell other people what they should play, i can recommend you to go play Path of Crafting mobile app, i play it sometimes sitting on the toilet bowl, this is the game for you.

d3 has extremely limited amount of mods and general variety, it also has augments and paragon, paragon is the main source of power in the endgame, etc. its no point to talk about d3, its a different story.

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Walltrigger wrote:
Harvest wasnt liked because of the garden and basically no added loot and monsters in maps, not because of the crafting.

not going to argue, those reasons you've highlighted are real, and i've talked about them even in this topic, few dozens pages ago.

i am talking now about more core problems that this league hasnt solved, but actually amplified. my opinion is that additional deterministic crafting options are good for the game, but you shouldnt be able to create best gear from the scratch. crafting should be limited in power, while a combat should reward players with high/top tier mods.

i get it that some players are pricing steady flow of their gear progression, question is: should they progress by crafting OR by killing mobs and picking up loot in ACTION role-playing game?

"
kekoyaso wrote:

nowadays new era players WANT END GAME GEARS without effort nearly without play
as all we old school arpg players want HUNT to LOOT not craft to play ARPG means u have to hunt hack n slash loot to gear but this crafting mechanincs slowly killing poe

i agree to some extend. this league is a huge mistake, it gave an ability to create extremely good gear to the BAD PLAYERS, just by following primitive steps from internet guides, just by planting and collecting seeds. undermining mapping, undermining endgame. you can farm seeds for a few days in t11 maps and you're good to go. what a [censored] disgrace. this league is a disaster almost in every way possible.


i can agree with you that combat should give people the best loot, but farming a boss for a specific loot isn't a thing in poe, and you will never get strongest loot from drop in this dumb game, so deterministic crafting is better than shit we now have
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Tainted_Fate wrote:
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Walltrigger wrote:
Play d3 then. There is zero feel of reward from dropped items. Crafting gives you a sense of progression and the feel that you improved your character. Its not fun playing the slot machine a million times just to get a 5% upgrade. You cant tell me endgame grind for loot is fun.

im seeing you like crafting and you like to tell other people what they should play, i can recommend you to go play Path of Crafting mobile app, i play it sometimes sitting on the toilet bowl, this is the game for you.

d3 has extremely limited amount of mods and general variety, it also has augments and paragon, paragon is the main source of power in the endgame, etc. its no point to talk about d3, its a different story.

"
Walltrigger wrote:
Harvest wasnt liked because of the garden and basically no added loot and monsters in maps, not because of the crafting.

not going to argue, those reasons you've highlighted are real, and i've talked about them even in this topic, few dozens pages ago.

i am talking now about more core problems that this league hasnt solved, but actually amplified. my opinion is that additional deterministic crafting options are good for the game, but you shouldnt be able to create best gear from the scratch. crafting should be limited in power, while a combat should reward players with high/top tier mods.

i get it that some players are pricing steady flow of their gear progression, question is: should they progress by crafting OR by killing mobs and picking up loot in ACTION role-playing game?

"
kekoyaso wrote:

nowadays new era players WANT END GAME GEARS without effort nearly without play
as all we old school arpg players want HUNT to LOOT not craft to play ARPG means u have to hunt hack n slash loot to gear but this crafting mechanincs slowly killing poe

i agree to some extend. this league is a huge mistake, it gave an ability to create extremely good gear to the BAD PLAYERS, just by following primitive steps from internet guides, just by planting and collecting seeds. undermining mapping, undermining endgame. you can farm seeds for a few days in t11 maps and you're good to go. what a [censored] disgrace. this league is a disaster almost in every way possible.


The thing with PoE though is that you can completely ignore league mechanics that you dont like. If you hate Harvest, then dont interact with it instead of saying it kills the game and should be removed or gimped to uselessness. You still progress.

We get xp, gem upgrades/awakened gems, currency and influenced bases from killing stuff already. Crafting gear is just one area of character improvement.

Grinding hundreds of maps just to get enough currency and buy items isnt what I consider fun part of the game. This is what every previous league has been, unless youre playing ssf. Learning mechanics and creating my own builds is the fun part, for me atleast.

Mindless delve and "alch and go" are still very much part of the game and isnt lessened by crafting in any way.

Also powerful uniques should drop from the strongest bosses. Mirror tier rares shouldnt.
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Walltrigger wrote:

The thing with PoE though is that you can completely ignore league mechanics that you dont like. If you hate Harvest, then dont interact with it instead of saying it kills the game and should be removed or gimped to uselessness. You still progress.

yOu dOnT lIkE thE lEaGuE tHeN dOnT pLaY iT

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Walltrigger wrote:

We get xp, gem upgrades/awakened gems, currency and influenced bases from killing stuff already. Crafting gear is just one area of character improvement.

Grinding hundreds of maps just to get enough currency and buy items isnt what I consider fun part of the game. This is what every previous league has been, unless youre playing ssf. Learning mechanics and creating my own builds is the fun part, for me atleast.

currency drops are atrocious this league, maybe because there are no additional monsters in maps?

xp means almost nothing in terms of character power, you get to 90-95 easilly, last 5 points are negligible

gem levels usually mean a lot, but they are very easy to max out

awakaned gems - there are only few valuable of those that give serious dps increase, others can be avoided easilly

so dont try to fool yourself or others, gear in path of exile is what really makes a character strong.

its really a pity we got the situation, because i partially agree that farming currency to BUY gear trough trading sites and generally speaking trading expirience is not a good solution too. but even this is better because it actually contains ACTION and COMBAT involved in the process, at least you fight your way to your wealth.

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Walltrigger wrote:

Mindless delve and "alch and go" are still very much part of the game and isnt lessened by crafting in any way.

mindless delve and alchngo? harvest crafting is not complicated, dont try to portrait yourself as an elitist, as i've said before, most of the gear is crafted by 5-7 steps process that can be performed by well-trained chimpanzee and im glad you've reached this high intellectual threshold.

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Walltrigger wrote:
Also powerful uniques should drop from the strongest bosses. Mirror tier rares shouldnt.

while i can agree with the first part, second part is a bold statement. mind explaining why?
Last edited by Tainted_Fate on Aug 13, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
It's a good thing this piece of shit wasn't added to the core mechanics , and I hope Baldy never does
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Tainted_Fate wrote:
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cyberthopp wrote:
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Tainted_Fate wrote:
imo players should get most upgrades by picking up loot from slayed enemies
not by spamming "craft" button standing in the "garden" covered up by pylons, dispersers, collectors.


That has never been the case. With so much affixes available the chance of a really good item dropping is astronomically low, basically zero. Really good items have always been crafted and some of the previous league mechanics has already aimed to make crafting a little bit more deterministic: essences, beasts and fossils. The main difference is that the wrappings of the crafting part of those leagues were more interesting while dropping more regular loot as well.

The existence of such a wide variety of stuff that can alter the mods on an item should give you a hint that crafting is and has been a core element of the game whether you like it or not.

yes, this has never been the case, but it should.

crafting should be a supplement, not the main way to get top items like it is now. you've got a decent item from boss kill, but it lacks something a bit, you add something on it with crafting, gear piece is awsome, thats it. you shouldnt be able to create all t1 mod gear just standing in the fucking garden in one place.

meanwhile current bosses are almost completely useless in terms of an actual gear. shaper is useless. watcher's eyes, awakened gems are not enough. bosses need to be deadly and able to drop an actual mirror-tier gear, thats how it should be done from the start.

its an arpg game, so if you want the best gear, ACTION and COMBAT should be directly involved in getting that gear. fuck this crafting mini-games, seriously. devs took initially wrong concept and double downed on it in this league, of course some players who have low gameplay standards are cheering, but it doesnt make this league good.

this actually shows why this league is the worst we had in years in terms of player numbers, thats because that kind of gameplay is not what players expect from hacknslash game.


I'd love to see what you're talking about because I have fond memories of farming items for days in D2 but unfortunately PoE is not a game like that because the most powerful items are rares with a gazillion of affixes to choose from. A totally random item will rarely be useable.

What could help though is making harvest crafts map modifiers for example. Something like "Items dropped by rare and unique monsters are guaranteed to have a Critical modifier" or "Items dropped by rare and unique monsters cannot have Fire modifiers". This could make drops be a bit more deterministic and would make identifying items actually worthwhile.

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cyberthopp wrote:
What could help though is making harvest crafts map modifiers for example. Something like "Items dropped by rare and unique monsters are guaranteed to have a Critical modifier" or "Items dropped by rare and unique monsters cannot have Fire modifiers". This could make drops be a bit more deterministic and would make identifying items actually worthwhile.

maybe something like that, yes.
buffs to different atlas regions that cycle evey day. some buffs at awakening 0, stronger at awakening 8. something like target loot in division 2.
"items dropped in this region of atlas have xx% chance to have Fire modifiers"
"items dropped by map bosses in this region of atlas have xx% chance to have x tier x modifiers"
"The Shaper: has xx% chance to drop an item with x tier x modifiers. Physical modifiers are more common".
"Uber Elder: has 5% chance of dropping 6 max tier modifiers item"
it may look like that, it may look different.
im not a game designer, its not my profession.
Last edited by Tainted_Fate on Aug 13, 2020, 3:41:35 PM
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Tainted_Fate wrote:
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Walltrigger wrote:
Also powerful uniques should drop from the strongest bosses. Mirror tier rares shouldnt.

while i can agree with the first part, second part is a bold statement. mind explaining why?


Because mirror tier weapons (perfect) should be VERY rare - and VERY hard to get, if not, they wouldn't be/feel special/valuable. Locking perfect weapons behind crafting is totally OK, and prolongs the game, the grind and your goals. "Perfect" should require more than blind luck.

The quality of dropped items in PoE should absolutely be better than it currently is. Finding AWESOME weapons should happen more often. But perfect, mirror tier weapons? No, they should require you to take advantage of every aspect of the game: knowledge, skills, drops, trade and crafting.
Phrazz has changed his ways. Forget his past, embrace the present.
Last edited by Phrazz on Aug 13, 2020, 4:23:01 PM
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Exxxiled665 wrote:
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gt33 wrote:
Harvest league, one of the best leagues, if not the best.


said no one ever, correct


ppl who like harvest are just stingy and dont want to use currency to craft
you can craft the same items without harvest,it just costs more


thats like saying you can run as fast as a car, its just harder

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