Minion Builds Need a Nerf

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demon9675 wrote:

There may be some specific spectres or something that need adjustments, but overall I don’t think the summoner archetype needs additional punishment from GGG.


The reality shows summoners not need "punishment" but rather some reworks to be inline with other builds or in other words not being busted as fuck
they are too strong defensively, nerf specter life pool and nerf offering skills.
QA Team supporter.
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Relative to the amount of investment and attention to play involved - minion builds are way too powerful right now. Doesn't even really matter what minion you use - spectres, zombies, animate weapon, whatever.

I get that there needs to be a "safe" choice to play, a league starter for people that don't want to be gear dependent, etc. But right now it's over the top.

Minion builds can invest almost exclusively into defensive nodes on the tree, take just a few damage clusters, and do 10+ million boss DPS very easily - trivializing the content.

Part of the mechanical advantage is related to all the screen clutter when playing through high-level juiced maps. If you're like me and have old eyes and slow reflexes, it's hard to even tell where damage is coming from a lot of the time. Minions solve that by auto-aiming at everything so you can focus on dodging.

I'm fine with that ease of play being an advantage of summoners, but there also needs to be some tradeoff - bossing DPS, or clear speed, or something - to get that huge defensive edge. Right now the tradeoff isn't there.

Suggested nerfs -

1. Map mods with "players cursed with..." should be "players and allies cursed with...". Also, add some specific minion-targeted map mods so they get less of a free ride.

2. Bosses should have additional damage resistance against minion attacks, and have bonus damage against minions to require more investment into minion survival. Minion builds absolutely trivialize bosses currently.

3. Minion movement speed reduced across the board so that it requires more investment in that stat to boost clear speed. Maybe add some more minion speed on the skill tree to compensate.

4. "Minions have a chance to taunt on hit" should not be available on abyssal jewels. Again, this makes boss encounters laughably easy.

5. Reduced effect of power/frenzy charges on minions. Currently they get the same buff as enemies do from these charges, leading to ridiculous DPS boosts just from raising some frenzy charge Apes as spectres.



Did a summoner hurt you in PvP or something ?

Don't get it at all... You don't play summoner, clearly, so based on what do you have this preposterous notion that Summoners has not been nerfed enough over the last couple of leagues... ?
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. " ~ Hunter S Thompson ~
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So u don't wanna play summoner and u r pissed cuz others play it and enjoy it, right?

U invested a lot in your build and it still sux?

Whats your problem with other people? Let them enjoy


I've played summoner a bunch of times. My 2 highest level characters are necromancer...

Look at poe.ninja stats, Necromancer has been the dominant class for the last three leagues at least.

Looking at 95% of builds and thinking "huh, I can play this but I know I'm making a bad choice because the obvious and better one is minion build" is not healthy to the game long-term.



They're not playing summoner they're playing spellslinger volatile dead.
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R

Suggested nerfs -

1. Map mods with "players cursed with..." should be "players and allies cursed with...". Also, add some specific minion-targeted map mods so they get less of a free ride.

2. Bosses should have additional damage resistance against minion attacks, and have bonus damage against minions to require more investment into minion survival. Minion builds absolutely trivialize bosses currently.

3. Minion movement speed reduced across the board so that it requires more investment in that stat to boost clear speed. Maybe add some more minion speed on the skill tree to compensate.

4. "Minions have a chance to taunt on hit" should not be available on abyssal jewels. Again, this makes boss encounters laughably easy.

5. Reduced effect of power/frenzy charges on minions. Currently they get the same buff as enemies do from these charges, leading to ridiculous DPS boosts just from raising some frenzy charge Apes as spectres.


I agree. And i would add

7. Reduced overall damage and especially reduced damage with gem level scaling

6. Reducing minion life and and qaurtering regeneration/leech effectivity.

8. Busted spectres like They of Thul from the breach thul domain provide summoners with 20/20 doge/ spell dodge and 15% damage reduction in a huge area of effect should simply not exist. Like one spectre for those amount of gains? Its absolutley insane.
Last edited by zzang on Jul 12, 2020, 11:41:15 AM
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j33bus wrote:


They're not playing summoner they're playing spellslinger volatile dead.

You Only Level Once d:-D*
Why not improve other skills?

Why do people most of the time ask for a nerf to one thing instead of asking for a buff for other things - especially in a game that has no professional aspect anyways.



“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Ah ffs. Ask about buffs not nurfs. Because of people like you other must struggle.

Also this:

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They're not playing summoner they're playing spellslinger volatile dead.
http://i.imgur.com/fxbCnfq.jpg
Last edited by NickIAm on Jul 12, 2020, 11:54:40 AM
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j33bus wrote:
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So u don't wanna play summoner and u r pissed cuz others play it and enjoy it, right?

U invested a lot in your build and it still sux?

Whats your problem with other people? Let them enjoy


I've played summoner a bunch of times. My 2 highest level characters are necromancer...

Look at poe.ninja stats, Necromancer has been the dominant class for the last three leagues at least.

Looking at 95% of builds and thinking "huh, I can play this but I know I'm making a bad choice because the obvious and better one is minion build" is not healthy to the game long-term.



They're not playing summoner they're playing spellslinger volatile dead.


Yeah, seems OP is out of touch, and got derailed by necro count, without noticing what they actually use.

Also.
Melee is reworked, so say thsnks to GGG for its state.

Also summoners not near any tanky at all. They have no leeck, no good layers of defences reliable, nothing.

And to to make summoner kinda tanky is very very expensive afterall.

Normally summoners top now is upper yellow maps.

So stop drama queen now and use your sanity (to OP)

Thanks.
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Looking at 95% of builds and thinking "huh, I can play this but I know I'm making a bad choice because the obvious and better one is minion build" is not healthy to the game long-term.



you see, you look at the numbers and misunderstand the route cause, just like GGG does. Summoner is not crazy op , you need to invest a lot and be quite mindful of your play as things can quickly spiral out of control.

No, the real issue is that GGG is giving us league after league where there is limited amount of choice in what we can play. minions are good because they can soak up damage and let you remain farther from the combat dangerzones. They let the player concentrate on positioning.

So what the route cause of frustation is that GGG refuses to fix subpar skills and playstyles (melee) to be more fluid in an arpg game.

Defenses need to mean more , and evasion / armour need an overhaul.
Energy shield needs to mean more then just having a high ehp. We need more access to flat and % life - especially on the right side of the tree to make more meaningful choices.

This is unlikely to change as GGG should be more apply nammed $$$ as they have no care about the player experience nor do they care about anything besides taking in mtx money. Quality of last 3 leagues has been a D- at best.
None of it should of been released in the state they were and the balance changes are simply to sell you the next meta mtx.

tldr; instead of asking for nerf to one playstyle - lets ask for a buff for the lesser played ones.
Last edited by nadakuu on Jul 12, 2020, 12:15:34 PM

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