Minion Builds Need a Nerf

Uh... Minion builds are what, 7-8% of meta now?

Do you really see a problem with that?

Herald stackers were 45% of the meta last league. Now THAT was a problem.

Now the meta is dominated by spellcasters but there are so many flavors of it, just VD Spellslinger seems to be 12% of the meta now, but summoners are nowhere the problem you say they are.

And by the way I don't play summoner this league (nor will I play one) but I have done it in the past post nerf and believe me, it does NOT take a small effort to gear them. Not counting the fact that Harvest does not have summoner crafts.
[quote="encore1809"]Have you tried not to die?[/quote]
0.7% skeletons
thats how hard they got nerfed to shit
Need more brains, exile?
Last edited by MasterTBC on Jul 13, 2020, 6:40:03 AM
"
MasterTBC wrote:


Summoners have very low clearspeed and low survivability
any melee build is cheaper and better


that are some BOLD claims to be made. like seriously - you believe that??

Mistress of Sacrifice + Bone Offering + Glancing Blows + fluff nodes == capped block with 600 life gained on hit (or more if you equip a 5% life recovered on block). that is not tanky? that ALONE is tankier than most melee. and then we move on to a WALL OF MEAT, WALL armed with lazors.

sorry, but this quoted part is pure bollocks
I think minions are overnerfed already.

Also, minions do not necessarily mean necromancer.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
Last edited by Oblitus on Jul 13, 2020, 7:09:32 AM
"
sidtherat wrote:
"
MasterTBC wrote:


Summoners have very low clearspeed and low survivability
any melee build is cheaper and better


that are some BOLD claims to be made. like seriously - you believe that??

Mistress of Sacrifice + Bone Offering + Glancing Blows + fluff nodes == capped block with 600 life gained on hit (or more if you equip a 5% life recovered on block). that is not tanky? that ALONE is tankier than most melee. and then we move on to a WALL OF MEAT, WALL armed with lazors.

sorry, but this quoted part is pure bollocks


Depends on the HP pool and mitigations going along with that. 75% chance to take 50% reduced attack damage alone won't help much if you have 5k life and no other defenses.

As for the clearspeed, I don't know about real Summoners as I have never played one, but if I take my HOA Guardian as an example then hell yes, melee is much faster than that. Minion AI is just a massive boulder attached to you that slows down a lot.

Can't even count how many Incursions I've failed because my Crawler thought it was fun to attack walls/Pillars/Doors instead of the monsters. Or because he decided to shoot at a couple of trash monsters at the other end of the room instead of the Architect next to me that I tried to kill in time. Not being able to direct your damage is a massive drawback that's very noticeable even if you have comparatively more damage overall.
Last edited by Baharoth15 on Jul 13, 2020, 7:12:14 AM
HoAg builds are boss killers, the main draw of them is the reliable, always on source of damage + interaction (now gone) of LGOH with your trigger skill of choice (molten strike). not to mention that this build costs ZERO. like seriously, leveling junk is enough to make it work into endgame


try spectres, even the cheap and old-school fireCarpet setup + enough minion speed is faster than you can run. add fork/chain to any projectile spectres and you get literally two screen clear after each salvo. and there are FAR better spectres now, fire carpets are just my old-time favs but they have like 10% efficiency

and spectres DO NOT DIE. like never.
"

Minion builds can invest almost exclusively into defensive nodes on the tree, take just a few damage clusters, and do 10+ million boss DPS very easily - trivializing the content.


Ehhh.. this is alot less true these days than it was a few patches ago. Zombies and skeletons got substantial dps nerfs. no one even talks about srs anymore. Dominating blow minions have never been an issue and sentinels have also been hit with chunky nerfs recently too.

Plus minion builds are the definition of on paper dps and those numbers make the false assumption that all the elements needed to deal that damage are always attacking. They are not. Some bosses move around , some are too small etc... harshly cutting down the damage of said minion builds. This is not too mention the investments in minion speed or the general jankyness of minion ai.


"

Part of the mechanical advantage is related to all the screen clutter when playing through high-level juiced maps. If you're like me and have old eyes and slow reflexes, it's hard to even tell where damage is coming from a lot of the time. Minions solve that by auto-aiming at everything so you can focus on dodging.


Most good builds are able to clear whole screens with one attack. You do realize that summoners tend to be on the slow end for map clear in most cases right? This is specifically because there are so many other builds that are superior for decluttering. Have you tried a good essence drain build.. it will change your life.

"

I'm fine with that ease of play being an advantage of summoners, but there also needs to be some tradeoff - bossing DPS, or clear speed, or something - to get that huge defensive edge. Right now the tradeoff isn't there.


There are trade offs


"

5. Reduced effect of power/frenzy charges on minions. Currently they get the same buff as enemies do from these charges, leading to ridiculous DPS boosts just from raising some frenzy charge Apes as spectres.


The charges are the way they are because it extremely hard to scale charges for minions. There is not a single minion related charge passive on the tree which boost the effectiveness of saidcharges.

Where a player can get 10 power charges and get tons of damage scaling per power charge like more damage increased damage , crit chance and crit multi .. all minions get is that 200% crit chance 3 charge and nothing else.


"
sidtherat wrote:
HoAg builds are boss killers, the main draw of them is the reliable, always on source of damage + interaction (now gone) of LGOH with your trigger skill of choice (molten strike). not to mention that this build costs ZERO. like seriously, leveling junk is enough to make it work into endgame


try spectres, even the cheap and old-school fireCarpet setup + enough minion speed is faster than you can run. add fork/chain to any projectile spectres and you get literally two screen clear after each salvo. and there are FAR better spectres now, fire carpets are just my old-time favs but they have like 10% efficiency

and spectres DO NOT DIE. like never.


As long as you dont run acid caverns anyway


"
MasterTBC wrote:
0.7% skeletons
thats how hard they got nerfed to shit


They are still viable. The issue is that when there are many strong summoners and you nerf only one .. people just move to the next variant. or go vd
Last edited by Saltychipmunk on Jul 13, 2020, 7:58:08 AM
"
sidtherat wrote:


and spectres DO NOT DIE. like never.


Yeah, i have incorporated They of Thul spectres into my Volatile Dead/Detonate Dead low life crit build. One gem for 20 dodge/20spell dodge and 15% damage reduction in a huge area of effect?
I take that free overpoweredness.

Tried a shaper run with the spectres needless to say zero minion defenses speced or on gear. The spectres tanked a full beam duration and have eaten a shaper slam afterwards and laughed it off. Both spectres survived with > 50% health.
Spectre health just from the plain gem is ridiculous and insane at the same time.

Now im thinking about adding a spectre gem to all of my melee builds who have enough intelligence for a semi decent spectre level. Free 20 dodge / 20 spell dodge and 15% damage reduction? I take it.

Edit: The name of the buff is Snow Cloak

To be honest no single spectre should provide such insane defenses in a huge area of effect its silly at this point.

And dont let me start about the offensive spectres like redemption centries or Slave Drivers there is one word for it: Overtuned
Last edited by zzang on Jul 13, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
They of Thul only works when u stay in 1 place (blight map).

After nerfs minions are below average and requires major investment for fast mapping

SD were nerfed so hard that they die from delirium mirror in red maps
Last edited by aqsahard on Jul 13, 2020, 12:49:08 PM
redemption sentries are only strong not op
they have lower dps than unnerfed slave drivers though
Need more brains, exile?

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info