Minion Builds Need a Nerf

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Pizzarugi wrote:
The biggest drawback to summoner is their clear speed.

Probably, and given that there are budget summoner builds that have good clearspeed ..... ( or very good, obviously not as fast as well tuned auto bombers because those things are f. stupid ).

It means that in everything else than clear speed, they are more than good.
On a budget.
Without needing to pay much attention to anything.

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Pizzarugi wrote:
The time it takes for a summoner to clear a map, a ranger or caster will have completed 2


1) no
2) big NO on a budget, with the same low cost, the summoner is likely faster.
There is a reason why RaizQt has been running spectre builds in a SSF HC ladder push, multiple times, before the big and stupid minion buff last year.



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Pizzarugi wrote:

Additionally, not a lot of people like summoners. If you pay a visit to poe.ninja and disable "Plaguebringer", Necro drops to 14% pick behind Assassin at 16%. This means that just over half of the players running it are using VD/DD, further proven by the fact that those skills' picks drop dramatically when the ascendancy is disabled. This means that a good number of people playing necro are playing as a caster than a summoner.


news flash : many players find the basic/standard summoner archetype boring af to play.

And so do I, overall.
One of the last characters that I played is summoning, but it's Soulwrest, which is quite different already.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.

ShakinGaijin : thread 2612666, Dyadus burning earthquake!RIP :(
[outdated]SweetBreaker : thread 823111 (facebreaker IB witch).
[outdated]Sunder guardian : thread 1831267 [BHC]ripped
Last edited by Fruz on Jul 14, 2020, 4:16:17 AM
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Fruz wrote:
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Universalis wrote:
Op is a lie of incompetence, summoner needs a big budget to really melt content at high speed.


A random start budget summoner build that melts content at quite high speed already


It's not that fast, bowers, miners or others builds can do that too, and believe me when it's about content i'm talking about hightest T16s or Sirus.
Else it's easy to destroy stuff with a 4L.

I think the best test is Simulacrum, doing minimum 5-6 to all waves. This can not be done with a cheap 4L spectres.



GGG nerfed baron build already; which was cheap. Today sentries require some serious investment (lets say 50+ exs, maybe more ?) to be broken, like many builds, once again: Cyclone Zerk, Miners !

Miners always have been out of control, they one shot-phase Sirus 8, nerf nerf...
Miner is super cheap, probably more broken per cost than summoner.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-post/23387491
Last edited by Universalis on Jul 14, 2020, 6:30:29 AM
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Universalis wrote:

It's not that fast, bowers, miners or others builds can do that too, and believe me when it's about content i'm talking about hightest T16s or Sirus.
Else it's easy to destroy stuff with a 4L.



wishful thinking. bowyers and miners cannot get ~8k hp AND that much damage AND deal damage on the move (avoiding most dangers) on that budget. they can run like headless chicken, sure. that comes in handy when they die as much as they do.

and if you opt for no-budget then there is actually no competition. miners can achieve very high BURST damage (map clear is also good but it requires a lot of attention) but have no survivability AND to keep their mine-streak going they have to stand in place. and that is the riskiest thing you can do in POE

i wonder what people mean when they say that GGG nerfed Baron builds. i expect most of these comments come from people who have no clue actually and never played it pre nor post 'nerf'.
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sidtherat wrote:
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Universalis wrote:

It's not that fast, bowers, miners or others builds can do that too, and believe me when it's about content i'm talking about hightest T16s or Sirus.
Else it's easy to destroy stuff with a 4L.



wishful thinking. bowyers and miners cannot get ~8k hp AND that much damage AND deal damage on the move


Your statement is a failure: summoners have no leech (lets not forget Baron build got killed) and low defence (no points for that), and today even NO SHIELD.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-post/23387491
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Universalis wrote:
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sidtherat wrote:
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Universalis wrote:

It's not that fast, bowers, miners or others builds can do that too, and believe me when it's about content i'm talking about hightest T16s or Sirus.
Else it's easy to destroy stuff with a 4L.



wishful thinking. bowyers and miners cannot get ~8k hp AND that much damage AND deal damage on the move


Your statement is a failure: summoners have no leech (lets not forget Baron build got killed) and low defence (no points for that), and today even NO SHIELD.


im affraid i cannot take you seriously anymore. you repeat some overheard 'alternative facts' and that prevents any form of discussion. check your facts, get some hands-on experience.
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Relative to the amount of investment and attention to play involved - minion builds are way too powerful right now. Doesn't even really matter what minion you use - spectres, zombies, animate weapon, whatever.

I get that there needs to be a "safe" choice to play, a league starter for people that don't want to be gear dependent, etc. But right now it's over the top.

Minion builds can invest almost exclusively into defensive nodes on the tree, take just a few damage clusters, and do 10+ million boss DPS very easily - trivializing the content.

Part of the mechanical advantage is related to all the screen clutter when playing through high-level juiced maps. If you're like me and have old eyes and slow reflexes, it's hard to even tell where damage is coming from a lot of the time. Minions solve that by auto-aiming at everything so you can focus on dodging.

I'm fine with that ease of play being an advantage of summoners, but there also needs to be some tradeoff - bossing DPS, or clear speed, or something - to get that huge defensive edge. Right now the tradeoff isn't there.

Suggested nerfs -

1. Map mods with "players cursed with..." should be "players and allies cursed with...". Also, add some specific minion-targeted map mods so they get less of a free ride.

2. Bosses should have additional damage resistance against minion attacks, and have bonus damage against minions to require more investment into minion survival. Minion builds absolutely trivialize bosses currently.

3. Minion movement speed reduced across the board so that it requires more investment in that stat to boost clear speed. Maybe add some more minion speed on the skill tree to compensate.

4. "Minions have a chance to taunt on hit" should not be available on abyssal jewels. Again, this makes boss encounters laughably easy.

5. Reduced effect of power/frenzy charges on minions. Currently they get the same buff as enemies do from these charges, leading to ridiculous DPS boosts just from raising some frenzy charge Apes as spectres.



Dude summoners don't need a nerf, all other classes need a boost.
the mere fact that your summoner is lvl 78 and your average +HP on your items is < 10! (below 10 average +HP across ALL ITEMS) is proof enough that summoners are in dire need of nerfing on the 'no-budget side'

no other build in the game can use this kind of gear and get anywhere, it is simply not possible. lvl 78 and items with +3 life? like honestly WTF?
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sidtherat wrote:

im affraid i cannot take you seriously anymore. you repeat some overheard 'alternative facts' and that prevents any form of discussion. check your facts, get some hands-on experience.


Like i said summoners have no serious defense, and today even no shield because of aegis. My 100 ex summoner has 9k ES tho, but can die very quickly.

Last day i met a guardian... Using some summons, this was probably OP because of defense. Would have to check the clearspeed.

You can't argue if you dont have any argument. If you have no knowledge do NOT post.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-post/23387491
Dude at level 78 I was still using the stuff I got at the Twilight Strand. What are you talking about? Do you have all T1 life rolls at level 78? For realsies?
as spellslinger necro or summoner? yeah, two builds that carry you and both are stupid as f..

try that feat with archer or melee and tell me how it went (prophecy: youll meet a sudden death in first map you enter with your -23% fire resistance and 1890HP. true story)

people playing OP stuff simply do not know how the game looks like when you move to something 'normal'. no normal build can get away with wearing one decent leveling item and having other 9 slots effectively empty. summoners DO get away with that.

that should get fixed (and i mean nerfed to the ground).

note to the 'meme' about Baron - 153 players (1% of visible ladder) plays Baron and im sure it is as far from being 'killed' as you can be). dude, seriously stop repeating stuff other told you and try things yourself

same with 'no shield'. like wtf is this joke? necro aegis is rarely used as you do not need it anymore, not with Bone Offering being what it is and glancing blows being easily available. you seriously got stuck in 2.3 patch or something if you believe the stuff you say

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