Why would I ever use exalted orbs? "Crafting" should be core.

"
Elhazzared wrote:
The average player makes 10 to 15 chaos per day
You shit out 15 chaos every 2-3 maps just from the seeds alone...

Anyways alt spamming for 35% movespeed then adding tailwind on crit, elusive on crit takes exactly 1 crit craft each... then you play with add/remove life and resists and you suddenly have a perfect pair of boots.

If you're not even acknowledging how easy it is to craft a perfect pair of boots then there's nothing anyone can do for you to help you understand what's wrong with that.
Last edited by yamface on Aug 13, 2020, 4:02:00 PM
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yamface wrote:
"
Elhazzared wrote:
The average player makes 10 to 15 chaos per day
You shit out 15 chaos every 2-3 maps just from the seeds alone...

Anyways alt spamming for 35% movespeed then adding tailwind on crit, elusive on crit takes exactly 1 crit craft each... then you play with add/remove life and resists and you suddenly have a perfect pair of boots.

If you're not even acknowledging how easy it is to craft a perfect pair of boots then there's nothing anyone can do for you to help you understand what's wrong with that.


It's rich you accuse people of not acknowledgeing things when you omit the gathering of the bases required and the Awakener's Orb required.
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Elhazzared wrote:
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BlackPulsar wrote:

no worries this league will not be core and you will still have fosil crafting and al the huuuuuge range of craft this game offers that you under estimate.and you WILL have to get use to thinking and figuring stuff out
to craft the best items and that's where the feeling of achievement will come from.
took you how much to craft 2 mirror tier items?.... you managed 2? in how much time????oh 50 hours for one? omg you guys should try diablo.


I don't think you understand the problem.

It's not about mirror tier item, I never talked about that. Allow me to give you a proper perspective.

The average player makes 10 to 15 chaos per day. Less if we consider they are doing low tier maps which often barely pay for the alchemy orb you used! And they do that because they have to, they don't have gear to go further. But even assuming they are doing tier 15/16 because they somehow magically got several ex worth of gear. They still are making 10 to 15 chaos a day.

Now let's look at a perfectly average pair of boots. These are not mirror tier, they are not GG items, it's just the bare minimum one can expect of a decent pair of boots.

30% movement speed
80+ life
30%+ fire res
30%+ cold res
30%+ lightning res

As you can see, this is a reasonable item, nothing out of this world, but something like this is rare to cost less than 1ex which we are starting to see 160c or more by the time the average player enters maps which is around 1 week after league start.

Now just getting these boots are 10 days worth of farming assuming he somehow is in tier 15/16 maps and can do them without any problems. But the reality of the situation is that PoE is a gear check and because of that the best they can do right now is white maps, at best low tier yellows. He probably isn't even res caped because it costs currency to get res cappped which means to deaths and taking further time to level up and finish maps. Heck, it's unlikely the average player at this point has a wand or scepter with more than 10% cast speed and 100% combined increased damage so his damage output is probably a lot lower than it would be desirable, even for this level of content.

So what happens? well, at low tiers you can expect that rather than 10 to 15 c they are doing more like 5 to 7 c a day. So assuming the average of 6c we have 160 / 6 = 26.66(6). Essencially, almost a month just to grab an acceptable pair of boots. All the while suffering through a build that isn't working due to gear and on that note, no build works without gear, not even minion builds before you say anything about minion like so many like to parrot as if there was even a shred of truth about it.

So please explain to me. Where is this pleasure that you derive from crafting this mirror worth items for the average player? Where is the fun for the average player to play this game?

Cause PoE has been dying ever since Delve. Covid might have engorged the number of players for a while but the fact is, players abadon the league earlier and earlier with each new league. Just this league alone there was a 40% playerbase loss after just a week. After a month there was almost 66% playerbase loss.

Back before delve where you could grab 30c and make a build that was capable of doing nearly all content, player retention was so much better, in generall you didn't even noticed a player loss before you were 1 month in and the low values that you see now after 1 month would only be seen after 2 months bare minimum.

Clearly there is a correlation to players being able to have fun in the game and players being active in the game. This can be done in multiple ways. Either make the game content much easier like it was before, or make the gear more readily available to everyone through crafting.


i manage to make one full geared build per league and i did it before fosils an anulments and other... if i war to make 2 builds than i could not but sometimes i sell all my stuff and use the curency to build somethign else and all that is fun for me.
i have a job and play in spare time but sometimes i take soem off time at league start or if i just love the league enough.
every league is something special and you all got something cool from this one,now just see what the next one brings caus harves with all the stuff you loved is over.
we have a shit ton of craftign options and i sugest next time to craft boots using Shuddering,pristine and prismatic Fossils in a 3 socket resonator, try that 4 or 5 times see if you get better boots or just alter/augment tier 1 life and a tier one res than regal hope for soemthign good and multimod,
or block the 2 magic mods using craicic chimeral in beast craft and regal till you get what you want, or find boots with 2 good prefixes,anul a sufix and craft prefixes canot be changed and you could get clean 35ms and 80+ life boots to multimod and than hit with some concueror orb to maybe get something you like... i'm surprised the people at ggg are still sane omg there is so much stuff.
"
yamface wrote:
You shit out 15 chaos every 2-3 maps just from the seeds alone...

Anyways alt spamming for 35% movespeed then adding tailwind on crit, elusive on crit takes exactly 1 crit craft each... then you play with add/remove life and resists and you suddenly have a perfect pair of boots.

If you're not even acknowledging how easy it is to craft a perfect pair of boots then there's nothing anyone can do for you to help you understand what's wrong with that.


I'll be honest, I never sold seeds cause I wanted to craft something, nothing decent was ever made of course. But looking at it now, plenty of seeds that are worth just about nothing.

As for you craft, alt spamming. A lot of people like to say it like it's nothing, and yet often enough just alt spamming a flask to get + movement speed takes me more than 30c worth of alts. This is not back before delve where you bought 16 alts for 1 c or even more. Right now alts are normally during the first month at prices like 1 c for 4 alts. They are very expensive and you don't have that many once you finish mapping. So just spamming for a 35% movement speed can be already prohibitively costly for the average player. Getting tail wind, elusive and so on, yeah, that's just a no on cost and as for the seeds crafting the rest. Surely you jest on the difficulty. For the top 10% of the playerbase, no issue, but let's get down to earth here. The average player will not be able to do it, they will not be doing seed crafting every 30 minutes, they'll do seed crafting once or twice a day tops and odds are that they will not be successful in the crafting anyway, because unless you are the luckiest player in the world, just getting a decent roll of what you want will take many atempts, this is multiplied over every little thing you need to add., possibly things you need to remove and so on and so forth.

So cease the mentality of a top 10% player, that isn't doing anyone any favors and it certainly isn't doing GGG or the game any favors at all, quite the contrary.

Games should be balanced around average players. What a game can reasonably ask of a player is what you should expect an average player to be able to do. Someone who is neither good nor bad at the game. otherwise you end up like PoE is becoming. A game with an diwndling player base and an elitist community which blindly keeps trying to force what they can do on others who will never have a chance of doing it. I'm sure you can clearly see where this is all going.
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
"
Aderahl wrote:
It's rich you accuse people of not acknowledgeing things when you omit the gathering of the bases required and the Awakener's Orb required.


You mean the materials that cost less than 5ex to get? By tossing such a weak argument out against me, are you implying it's ok to end up with a top calibur pair of boots with just a less than 5ex upfront investment?

If this guy really makes 10c a day or whatever he's not even playing the game.
"
Aderahl wrote:

It's rich you accuse people of not acknowledgeing things when you omit the gathering of the bases required and the Awakener's Orb required.

yah whell if you want that cool craft you have to kill the cool boss....
this is a building and thinking game,an arpg with luck and alot of ups and downs.
the whole creativity and interaction between the devs and the players is them making new challenges and modifications each league and us finding new ways to smash their challenge.
it is fun for us and this is actually fun for the devs too.
are you sure you know what kind of game you got into?
Last edited by BlackPulsar on Aug 13, 2020, 4:27:55 PM
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Elhazzared wrote:
Games should be balanced around average players.


No they shouldn't, and no respectable game ever does so. Take a good look at every top online game on the market. Nobody balances the game around the average player. There are balance changes that keep the average player in mind, but the super majority of them are for the top players. If you want to see what a game looks like when it balances around the average player, you might as well go into the mobile gaming industry because that's exactly what they do.
"
yamface wrote:
"
Elhazzared wrote:
Games should be balanced around average players.


No they shouldn't, and no respectable game ever does so. Take a good look at every top online game on the market. Nobody balances the game around the average player. There are balance changes that keep the average player in mind, but the super majority of them are for the top players. If you want to see what a game looks like when it balances around the average player, you might as well go into the mobile gaming industry because that's exactly what they do.

blizzard did this with diablo 3 and it went like hell,they also did it with most thigns afther cataclysm in world of warcraft and that started the game's downfall.
alot of games failed caus they got greedy and wanted to appeal to more people,this is an arpg and it appeals to arpg players.
i cant understand how they would think like this...never mind this thread man, game would turn into farmville if it would cater to these guys
Last edited by BlackPulsar on Aug 13, 2020, 4:47:23 PM
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BlackPulsar wrote:

yah whell if you want that cool craft you have to kill the cool boss....
this is a building and thinking game,an arpg with luck and alot of ups and downs.
the whole creativity and interaction between the devs and the players is them making new challenges and modifications each league and us finding new ways to smash their challenge.
it is fun for us and this is actually fun for the devs too.
are you sure you know what kind of game you got into?


Have you played the game pre delve? I think you do considering all the packs you bought but allow me to surmise it for you.

3k HP, capped res, early map gear with a total cost of 30c or less, sometimes not even 20c. This was all you needed to do nearly all content and the game had much better player retention. I'm pretty sure he knows what he got himself into when he started playing PoE. The design philosophy changed for no reason in recent years when GGG was forced in the past to give that level of power to players to get a decen sized player base. Putting the game back to this state would not impede the enjoyment of anyone, it would only allow many more to enjoy it.

Let's be honest here, the top 10% of the players already feel the game is too easy, but the fact of the matter is, unless GGG makes the bosses throw down an AOE that cover the entire map and make them invunerable to damage, the top 10% of the players will always think everything is too easy. So whether it becomes easier or not doesn't even affects them to begin with. They play because they enjoy the game mechanics, easy or hard they are enjoyable for them. The same cannot be said for the average player.

"
yamface wrote:
"
Elhazzared wrote:
Games should be balanced around average players.


No they shouldn't, and no respectable game ever does so. Take a good look at every top online game on the market. Nobody balances the game around the average player. There are balance changes that keep the average player in mind, but the super majority of them are for the top players. If you want to see what a game looks like when it balances around the average player, you might as well go into the mobile gaming industry because that's exactly what they do.


Take a look at the better games in the market that are not competitive. Because competitive games certainly have to be balanced around the best players since it's the competition that matters. PoE is not a competitive game however! You are not going around shoting eachother off, competing for the bigest E-pe... The better games out there are balanced around average players but have additional difficulty modes to accomodate for the good players and the bad players. There is a reason the majority default difficulty setting is normal. It's not because the developers are afraid to say the hard or higher is what they were going for. It's because that's what the game was balanced around.

You more prof of this? How about this then. Go play age of empires 2 and then go play age of empires 1. You will notice that age of empires 2 is so much easier, the difference is day and night. Why? Because developers started to understand the unmistakable fact that balance is done around the average, not around the top players, otherwise people might as well stop gamming at all since only 10% can have fun.

BTW, let's not insult average players here. Average and casual are 2 different types of players. Casual are people who just want the game to play by itself and they just click once every couple minutes. Average players are people who are neither good nor bad. They probably can't get any better at the game either because everyone has a skill cap, I'm a little bit above average myself, but I'm by no means a good player and I've accepted the fact that I've gotten as good as I can over many years of playing PoE. Skill cap is a real thing, unfortunately schools don't really teach you that it's a real thing because it's good to let children dream of being able to be whatever they can be. Reallity of course will catch up to them or they will have the luck to actually be quite skilled at what they like. Anyway An average player, is not good nor bad, but he still puts eforth and as much commitment as he can into the game. He shouldn't be treated like a casual who essencially doesn't cares about what he is even playing to begin with.
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
Last edited by Elhazzared on Aug 13, 2020, 4:51:07 PM
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Elhazzared wrote:

Have you played the game pre delve?
"
BlackPulsar wrote:


i had fun back then and i'm still having fun now,some things piss me off in the mtx department but i still liek this game more than everythign else there is out there.
at start i was annoyed caus there war no tutorials and nothing to let you know how to play,i was learnign most stuff from other players and soem of them scammed me,
if there is one thing i want ggg to do, it would be even more descriptions with litle animated images that show you tutorials on how you should or could use soem items and curency so that you can learn without searching forums.
but for now,just know that everything you want to craft is posible,you're just not doing it right.
Last edited by BlackPulsar on Aug 13, 2020, 5:01:41 PM

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