Why would I ever use exalted orbs? "Crafting" should be core.

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Marxone wrote:
This thread seems to suffer from the notion that casual people cannot use google, discord, reddit or other resources to maximize gain from the time spent in game.

So all the debates should be "how the bad players do not profit from over the top crafting options"

And following debate is going to be "GGG ingame information serving sux and everything relies on 3rd party websites.

that is true and i hate using 3rd party anything,i dont want to alt tab ever and i dont want a loot filter anymore. the ysaid drops will be much lower and filtered in poe 2 but i dont think we will ever see an auction house caus they are calling sitting in hideout for hours as "game time"
Last edited by BlackPulsar on Aug 13, 2020, 7:06:11 PM
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BlackPulsar wrote:
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Elhazzared wrote:

I don't believe that is asking for much, In fact that is the bare minimum that anyone can ask for.

so anyone should be able to do sirus caus he is part of the core game...
now that's one hell of an end game boss.
dude, poe 2 should make things better for both partyes but game will never be that stupid easy and you will get to kill the end game boss when you are good enough.
sirus will not be the end game forever and i know ggg is getting ready to give the player base an even harder boss caus everyone is saying this is not a high enough chalenge for the end game, i think december league will hit us with another end game change


I don't think you understand the issue so let me try an explain it differently.

Core gameplay is mapping, conquerors and sirius. This should be the easiest content in the game!

Then there is Lab, while a side content it's an absolutly mandatory content so the difficulty shouldn't be too high and to be fair, it's kinda balanced for what it is in terms of difficulty.

Then there is all other side content:
Atziri
Shapper
Elder
Pale Council
Delve
Syndicate
Incursion

There is more but you get the picture. This content should be way harder than the core content. This isn't me just simply saying, make Sirius easier than all of those, those could also be increased in dificulty but Sirius should 100% be be hit with the nerf sledgehammer.

Once they change the map again and Sirius is no longer the map boss, then he can be buffed and the new map boss will have to be one of the easier bosses since he is core content. This is basic game design 101.

As for PoE 2, I have no faith whatsoever for it. What i've seen of it shows me running around white mooks for hours trying to kill them. I'm not about that, it's boring AF. Also the current state of PoE doesn't inspires me confidence that they will get PoE 2 any better. It has some good ideas like the idea for keeping slots and colloring as well as being able to have multiple 6l, but that's really it, I haven't seen anything exciting at all about PoE 2.

And yeah, they said they had exciting news or something for the next league but personally, I think this exciting news are, we are making the game even worse. Enjoy!
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
Honestly after reading this thread I can't tell if the "average player" even plays the game. A mixture of fossil crafting and alt-regal-bench crafting is fine for any gear you would ever realistically need.What could be put in the core game that would fit with the current system would be a regal and/or transmute resonator, but harvest crafting really hurts the lower skill players more than it helps them.


People make a lot of currency crafting and the problem isn't that crafting is never worth it, it's a lack of knowledge on the player's part. What could help in that department would be something like a side quest where you craft a pair of moves speed boots or something. Maybe in act 6 an npc let's you pick a boot base and gives a transmute, 10 alts and a regal. You get popups explaining what to use and after the 10th roll you get a guaranteed 15-20% movespeed and life, then you regal it for a random resist. The game would tell you that this method can be used to make items that you might not want, but other players would.

There's already a way to see the tier of roll and the range in game now, all they have to do is teach a player how to use the knowledge presented.

And as far as exaults being worthless goes, they pretty much are for random crafts, but they're useful for high end bench crafts, which gives them plenty of value
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dzieciol1992 wrote:
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SisterBlister wrote:


They want us to trade


But they can't move their lazy asses to create in-game Auction House.



TRU!

Trading is grossly unintuitive and bogged down with price fixers and scammers while GGG does next to nothing to resolve this. Very few people have any encouragement to trade.

If GGG's not willing to make trading easier, then crafting needs to become more accessible for players who are not so rich they can gamble away their exalts like they're worth nothing.

I'd rather play the game instead of spamming the same copy+paste messages to an army of nonresponsive players. I consider crafting to be an aspect of playing the game, because I'm making an effort to create better gear upon which to improve my build. Harvest, despite its flaws, has been a great example of giving that kind of power to the players.
PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds.

Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build!

Betrayal was the best league we had since Legacy. The reward agency is something this game needs, and will be sorely missed.
Last edited by Pizzarugi on Aug 13, 2020, 9:03:53 PM
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Herbeh wrote:
Honestly after reading this thread I can't tell if the "average player" even plays the game. A mixture of fossil crafting and alt-regal-bench crafting is fine for any gear you would ever realistically need.What could be put in the core game that would fit with the current system would be a regal and/or transmute resonator, but harvest crafting really hurts the lower skill players more than it helps them.


People make a lot of currency crafting and the problem isn't that crafting is never worth it, it's a lack of knowledge on the player's part. What could help in that department would be something like a side quest where you craft a pair of moves speed boots or something. Maybe in act 6 an npc let's you pick a boot base and gives a transmute, 10 alts and a regal. You get popups explaining what to use and after the 10th roll you get a guaranteed 15-20% movespeed and life, then you regal it for a random resist. The game would tell you that this method can be used to make items that you might not want, but other players would.

There's already a way to see the tier of roll and the range in game now, all they have to do is teach a player how to use the knowledge presented.

And as far as exaults being worthless goes, they pretty much are for random crafts, but they're useful for high end bench crafts, which gives them plenty of value


Just because you can run maps fast it doesn't means the average player can, back when I started playing this it took me 20 minutes per map in average. I did got better and I'm better than the average player and it still takes me 5 to 10 minutes but it's absolutly true an average player will take 10 to 15 depending on several factors. You shouldn't use yourself as a measure of anything if you are far bellow the average or far above it.

A mixture of fossil crafting and regalling gives the player absolutly nothing 9999 out of 10000 times. Please stop talking like every player has the kind of currency to craft what they want when they want. Fact is, to create a minimally acceptable item like an example I mentioned before in this post already it takes several ex worth of money and of course they rarely sell in the market for any less than 1 ex anyway.

People do NOT make a lot of currency crafting. People sometimes get lucky and craft something ridiculously expensive for a much lower value, but that's a one off. Last league I crafted a mirror worth value item just out of sheer dumb luck. But you know what? I've still spent some 4 ex on it and it was probably worth around 10 to 15 and at the end of the math, in all my crafting atempts throughout the years, I've probably spents more than 100 ex trying to craft something and that was the only time it paid off. This is the reality of crafting. Harvest crafting doesn't changes this much, the only change it does is that you don't need to be in red maps to craft some really good items, white maps are good too as long as the ilvl of the item isn't too high of course. However the RNG is almost as bad and the amount of time you'd be farming seeds and crafting is about as high as if you were on red maps farming currency to craft. That is why people buy from the market. They buy things others either crafted on acident or something they used for a while but do not use anymore.
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
"
Elhazzared wrote:
A mixture of fossil crafting and regalling gives the player absolutly nothing 9999 out of 10000 times. Please stop talking like every player has the kind of currency to craft what they want when they want. Fact is, to create a minimally acceptable item like an example I mentioned before in this post already it takes several ex worth of money and of course they rarely sell in the market for any less than 1 ex anyway.


I'll use my own experience as an example:


This took several exalts to make via fossil crafting, trying to get the two Shaper mods with few to no extra mods I can't otherwise remove with Harvest crafting. I had to make several attempts to get something remotely viable even after getting the two mods I wanted.

How many average players have access to the amount of currency needed to craft this, let alone buy it from someone else? I can't fathom the idea of making this outside of Harvest.
PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds.

Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build!

Betrayal was the best league we had since Legacy. The reward agency is something this game needs, and will be sorely missed.
Last edited by Pizzarugi on Aug 13, 2020, 9:23:36 PM
"
Pizzarugi wrote:

I'll use my own experience as an example:


This took several exalts to make via fossil crafting, trying to get the two Shaper mods with few to no extra mods I can't otherwise remove with Harvest crafting. I had to make several attempts to get something remotely viable even after getting the two mods I wanted.

How many average players have access to the amount of currency needed to craft this, let alone buy it from someone else?


Dunno how much it took you to make that, but it should take hundreds of ex in average to craft that based on RNG alone. If it didn't take you that much, you just happened to luck out.

As for how many players have the currency to craft that, at the very best case scenario, we're looking at 10% of the playerbase. In a more likely scenario, probably 2% to 3%.

Of course I'm not saying everyone should craft that with 10c or anything like that that. But let's say it was life + triple resistance 6l (not whites). Something like that should basically be guaranteed easy for any average player. But it isn't.
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
Last edited by Elhazzared on Aug 13, 2020, 9:23:25 PM
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Elhazzared wrote:
"
Pizzarugi wrote:

I'll use my own experience as an example:


This took several exalts to make via fossil crafting, trying to get the two Shaper mods with few to no extra mods I can't otherwise remove with Harvest crafting. I had to make several attempts to get something remotely viable even after getting the two mods I wanted.

How many average players have access to the amount of currency needed to craft this, let alone buy it from someone else?


Dunno how much it took you to make that, but it should take hundreds of ex in average to craft that based on RNG alone. If it didn't take you that much, you just happened to luck out.

As for how many players have the currency to craft that, at the very best case scenario, we're looking at 10% of the playerbase. In a more likely scenario, probably 2% to 3%.

Of course I'm not saying everyone should craft that with 10c or anything like that that. But let's say it was life + triple resistance 6l (not whites). Something like that should basically be guaranteed easy for any average player. But it isn't.


In case it wasn't clear, I agree with your points that this kind of crafting isn't easy. It took me a lot of effort and currency to make the chest armor I showed, and isn't nowhere near the best and I had to use a combination of fossil crafting plus Harvest crafting to achieve.

I can't imagine myself ever trying to make something like this again after Harvest, much less players who aren't rich enough to gamble away fucktons of exalts.

However, Harvest did considerably improve my odds of making this. And for that, I will dearly miss it when it ends.
PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds.

Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build!

Betrayal was the best league we had since Legacy. The reward agency is something this game needs, and will be sorely missed.
Last edited by Pizzarugi on Aug 13, 2020, 9:30:01 PM
"
Pizzarugi wrote:

In case it wasn't clear, I agree with your points that this kind of crafting isn't easy. It took me a lot of effort and currency to make the chest armor I showed, and isn't nowhere near the best and I had to use a combination of fossil crafting plus Harvest crafting to achieve.

I can't imagine myself ever trying to make something like this again after Harvest, much less players who aren't rich enough to gamble away fucktons of exalts.

However, Harvest did considerably improve my odds of making this. And for that, I will dearly miss it when it ends.


I realised. But it's not that Harvest increased your odds a lot. I mean, ok it does increase a little bit, but not enough to bve trully visible.

What harvest really did for you was not having to struggle all the way up till red maps before you can start getting some currency, you can start trying your luck much earlier, and just like doing maps. The more you do the more you spin the luck roulette and eventually it pays off. Even so the payoff is still several levels of oof grinding. I have nothing against grinding for better gear, but at least allow me to get good enough gear to start doing the content that I'm expected to do. It's a simple math case.

Course, still need something done about Sirius. Right now I think the only chance in hell an average player might have at Sirius would be with a gladiator max block build to just tank the die beam. That said, still requires good gear which is still a problem factor. On a personal level I hate melee and mostly like minion or totem builds so there is no way that would ever work for me anyway.
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
"
Elhazzared wrote:
Again you are showing you have absolutly no idea of what you are talking about. The average player has around 2 hours to play a day with a map taking anywhere between 10 minutes and 20 minutes to finish. This is because of deaths, selling loot (since average still take some yellows to look for something better than the trash they have), mid game small pauses, backtracking on some of the maps, etc. This means the average player will do 6 to 12 maps a day and at low tiers, many times you don't even get 1c from the map.

This may seem casual to you but that is absolutly wrong, these people are still quite invested into the game, but they just don't have time to do more and their skill cap is already as high as it can go. That doesn't makes it casual. You are just one of those guys who thinks anyone who is not the top 10% players is a casual which is factually wrong.


You are literally projecting yourself as the benchmark of an average player.

I have bad news for you: you are not average, you're a casual. An average player is someone like me, who plays a few hours a day just like you said. I have a full time professional job to be at 50-60 hours a week then there's family and house chores then I have other fun things to do other than just poe, I don't have the time to be into this game 24/7. Except the difference is I actually am committed to the game still despite having little time to play. I still take the time to learn and improve, and as a result I end up playing pretty efficiently during the few hours I do play over the years. You on the other hand have played since 2013, almost as long as me, and you still can only make 10c a day. You stopped taking the time to improve at the game during that entire time. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with being casual. But don't you ever dare call yourself "average" as if you just felt insulted by being called otherwise while still implying you are still committed to the game because you're not and the game isn't going to balance around that.

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