LL Build comparison CoC VS VD

Hey im playing ssf on harvest league. Recently ive droped shavs, prism guardian and cospri. Im thinking about making 2 LL chars and want to know which would be better "all around" choice.


CoC Assasin LL Frostbold + Ice nova

or

LL Spellsinger VD+DD Necro

Hoping for some suggestions

Shavs is on 5link

Last edited by Fornal89 on Aug 14, 2020, 7:53:23 AM
Last bumped on Aug 15, 2020, 5:32:28 AM
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?item=Shavronnes-Wrappings,Prism-Guardian&keystone=Pain-Attunement&sort=dps&dps=Ice-Nova

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?item=Shavronnes-Wrappings,Prism-Guardian&keystone=Pain-Attunement&sort=dps&dps=Volatile-Dead

Brushing aside the glass cannons at the top of the VD list, seems like VD still edges out Ice Nova builds in terms of DPS. However, I don't think the system took into account the fact that we explode 2 Frostbolts per cast of Ice Nova, and then there is the DPS coming from Frostbolts (because Ice Nova don't consume them unlike Vortex). But we all know that VD lets you ramp up the DPS by pre-filling the ground with balls before the boss is ready to be damaged.

In terms of defenses they should have around 48% spell dodge (phase acro + elusive) and spell block (bone offering + passive points) respectively. However, the necro also gets 445 life gained on block (no benefit if you go LL though).

P/S: I've never played both builds but I do theorycraft A LOT on these things. I have a CoC-spellslinger Ice Nova wander, fastest clearing build I've ever played (with barrage and Volley Fire), but it's not the same as Cospris I guess.

EDITED: Oh yeah what was I thinking. Phase acro and ES builds don't go hand in hand. So.. um assassins have even less defenses than that.
Last edited by jeerinho on Aug 14, 2020, 10:13:18 AM
Let me also mention that for CoC, you could be missing out on a lot of DPS if you don't have Flow Untethered belt and can't craft Increased CDR on your belt or boots.
Last edited by jeerinho on Aug 14, 2020, 9:57:41 AM
"
jeerinho wrote:
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?item=Shavronnes-Wrappings,Prism-Guardian&keystone=Pain-Attunement&sort=dps&dps=Ice-Nova

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?item=Shavronnes-Wrappings,Prism-Guardian&keystone=Pain-Attunement&sort=dps&dps=Volatile-Dead

Brushing aside the glass cannons at the top of the VD list, seems like VD still edges out Ice Nova builds in terms of DPS. However, I don't think the system took into account the fact that we explode 2 Frostbolts per cast of Ice Nova, and then there is the DPS coming from Frostbolts (because Ice Nova don't consume them unlike Vortex). But we all know that VD lets you ramp up the DPS by pre-filling the ground with balls before the boss is ready to be damaged.

In terms of defenses they should have around 48% spell dodge (phase acro + elusive) and spell block (bone offering + passive points) respectively. However, the necro also gets 445 life gained on block (no benefit if you go LL though).

P/S: I've never played both builds but I do theorycraft A LOT on these things. I have a CoC-spellslinger Ice Nova wander, fastest clearing build I've ever played (with barrage and Volley Fire), but it's not the same as Cospris I guess.

EDITED: Oh yeah what was I thinking. Phase acro and ES builds don't go hand in hand. So.. um assassins have even less defenses than that.

The "system" shows average damage. Putting aside that including Prism Guardian in the search is unnecessary while including certain Awakened Support gems is not, you have completely ignored the hit rate. Poe.ninja is not able to account for that at all.

In the end, VD still has higher single target dps (because for whatever reason it has had the most damage per skill use out of all spammable spells basically from its inception and was never significantly nerfed), but it comes down to roughly 20 Ice Novas and 33-40 VD hits per second depending on whether they get Undertaker or not (assuming that they have 52%+ or 69%+ increased cooldown recovery speed for their trigger respectively).
"

The "system" shows average damage. Putting aside that including Prism Guardian in the search is unnecessary while including certain Awakened Support gems is not, you have completely ignored the hit rate. Poe.ninja is not able to account for that at all.

In the end, VD still has higher single target dps (because for whatever reason it has had the most damage per skill use out of all spammable spells basically from its inception and was never significantly nerfed), but it comes down to roughly 20 Ice Novas and 33-40 VD hits per second depending on whether they get Undertaker or not (assuming that they have 52%+ or 69%+ increased cooldown recovery speed for their trigger respectively).


Oh yeah non-awakened Spell Cascade is 24 hits per sec... And I just found out that the corpse explosion part, as well as ignites, are also not taken into account in AVG damage!

Already theorycrafted a 6.3 million DPS life-based budget build with Eclipse Solaris, LOL. BRB joining the hype train before it gets nerf-hammered next league!
Last edited by jeerinho on Aug 14, 2020, 2:28:28 PM
Sorry i seem to be hijacking this thread...

Just leveled necro VD to 62 and starting act 10. Equipped Tabula with +2 AoE Skills, Eclipse Solaris, Light of Lunaris, and Flow Untethered as soon as i can. My WoC and Combustion is on a CoC setup to reserve less mana. Single target is top notch. GGG designing boss mechanics base on multiple immune phases seems to fall nicely at the hands of builds like this and miners.

Two issues:

1. Even with Flow Untethered, it takes 0.8 seconds to get the first balls up due to the way Desecrate works, whereby there is a slight delay before the corpses appear. Hence the first trigger cant make balls appear yet even if you correctly ordered the skills. And then we have to wait a few hundred milliseconds more for the balls to travel. This 1 second wait time could be your demise if you're charging blindly at packs.
EDIT: As pointed out by some nice chaps in-game, single-handedly solved this issue with barrage support linked to the Frenzy. I was gimping my own DPS the whole time :)

2. The balls will obscure your view from dangerous ground effects.

No wonder i read ppl say they still need more defenses to compensate.
Last edited by jeerinho on Aug 15, 2020, 5:51:42 PM

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