Bear Trap

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OnmyojiOmn wrote:
The skill would be much more useful for crowd control if there was a delay before a trapped enemy could trigger another trap. If you're trying to get two enemies into traps, one enemy will trigger both. A delay of about three seconds would do the trick.

On the other hand the ability to nuke a dangerous enemy with a big stack of traps is quite handy.



I have noticed the animation for throwing down a trap (with a duelist) is a bit off. He does the throwing animation, and then the trap flies out after the throw motion is complete. Looks a bit funny and makes it hard to use against something like a charging rhoa, since that extra delay lets the enemy reach you before the trap arms itself.
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Malice wrote:
I have noticed the animation for throwing down a trap (with a duelist) is a bit off. He does the throwing animation, and then the trap flies out after the throw motion is complete. Looks a bit funny and makes it hard to use against something like a charging rhoa, since that extra delay lets the enemy reach you before the trap arms itself.
Which animation does this occur for (i.e. what weapon combination are you using)? I can't see anything obviously wrong in the contact points myself with a quick look.
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Mark_GGG wrote:
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Malice wrote:
I have noticed the animation for throwing down a trap (with a duelist) is a bit off. He does the throwing animation, and then the trap flies out after the throw motion is complete. Looks a bit funny and makes it hard to use against something like a charging rhoa, since that extra delay lets the enemy reach you before the trap arms itself.
Which animation does this occur for (i.e. what weapon combination are you using)? I can't see anything obviously wrong in the contact points myself with a quick look.

Any weapon combination. After reading this I tried a whole bunch of different weapons (dual wielding, club & shield, staff, two-hand sword, etc.), it happens for all of them.

Look at this video, one time the throw animation doesn't play at all, another time the throw animation plays but the trap animation doesn't play (invisible trap).

Then you see super slo-mo of trap only flying out at the end of the throw animation. Seems to mee they should both start at the same time if it's going to look sensible.

Linky to video (2.5MB mkv)



edit: Some more feedback

The trap does a hefty amount of damage and works decently as a fallback when I can't go into melee with something. This skill was the only way I could safely kill the multi-projectile constructs in vaal ruins, which will one-shot me if I get too close. However this skill one-shots the regular enemies, so with a lot of dodging I can pick them off one by one.
Also managed to insta-gib a rare version with a stack of three traps in a doorway.

So the damage is decent enough, but I would like to see the cooldown shortened, it takes forever to recharge.
Last edited by Malice on May 28, 2012, 8:49:25 AM
Why doesn't this skill have a listed critical chance? Aren't traps spells? Does it mean it cannot crit?
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Why doesn't this skill have a listed critical chance? Aren't traps spells? Does it mean it cannot crit?

This is fixed in 0.9.10
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Malice wrote:
Any weapon combination. After reading this I tried a whole bunch of different weapons (dual wielding, club & shield, staff, two-hand sword, etc.), it happens for all of them.

Look at this video, one time the throw animation doesn't play at all, another time the throw animation plays but the trap animation doesn't play (invisible trap).

Then you see super slo-mo of trap only flying out at the end of the throw animation. Seems to mee they should both start at the same time if it's going to look sensible.

Linky to video (2.5MB mkv)
Sorry for taking so long to reply, had a lot to do, and been a bit sick.

This doesn't happen for me locally on my work machine, which leads me to believe it's latency-based.
The trap is created (on the server) and begins moving at the contact point in the throw animation (I have confirmed this works correctly). However, it won't show on the client until it's been serialised there and the client knows about it. On my local servers here I have basically no latency, so there's no delay.
If this is the reason for the delay you're seeing, then there's really not much that can be done, I'm afraid.
I've been trying this skill with my bow-wielding Shadow, and have found it to be pretty useless. Anything that I would need to slow down (i.e. a special or rare mob) seems to be immune to the holding effect, and the damage is so slight that I am way better off just spamming attacks than trying to use the traps. Additionally, I think the traps travel too slowly after they get thrown (but that may be a latency issue on my side).

-If the traps traveled more quickly after the throwing animation, it might be more feasible to use the traps against fast-moving regular mobs against which they are most useful. As it stands now, by the time the mine is down, the fast-moving mobs are already on me, and if I try to kite them into the mine I inevitably attract more fast-moving mobs, so I'm better off just shooting them to begin with.
-Also, while I understand that you may not want the trap to always stop an enemy, as such a feature would make boss fights like Brutus trivially easy, perhaps the bear trap could always make enemies move/attack slower for a few seconds (kind of like a chilled effect or one of those totems in the Pyramid) and stop them completely for a second or two on a critical hit.

As it stands now, though, I really do not think this skill is very useful.
Some notes:
- Highest multiplier of any spell (1.5!), which means added cold, lightning, and chaos become very strong! (Does about a bajillion damage on a pain attunement/righteous fire build.) Since you can see the enemy approaching the trap, you can also easily time a Diamond Flask for yet more damage (untested).
- Not possible to use outside of a support role due to slow trap reload speed and single-target only.
- That being said, its support role is amazing. If you know a boss is coming up, dropping 3 before the fight gives a lot of extra damage and the immobilization effect fucks with the monster AI for long enough to allow tons of free ranged hits.
- The immobilization effect is very weak outside of AI fuckery. The enemies you want to delay the longest are the biggest, ugliest bosses which are affected the least. Or maybe you want to immobilize the fastest enemies, which tend to run right past it since the cast delay is fairly high.
- The trap lives on the server, so latency issues can creep in.

Suggestions:
- Have bear trap fire a projectile that has the bear trap effect in a line away from the character. If it doesn't hit anything, it falls to the ground as a trap. This allows for immobilizing fast enemies charging right at you and allows for pierce-style AoE.
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Mark_GGG wrote:
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starsg wrote:
1. Is the opponent able to see the trap laid on the ground?
Opponents can see traps as they are thrown, and while they are (the short animation they play when they land). While they're arming, the traps can be destroyed by area of effect damage skills.
Once the trap is armed, it's invisible to opponents.
When the trap is triggered, it becomes visible (and destroyable) during the trigger animation, however it triggers quickly enough that someone would need really, really good reactions and cast/attack speed to kill a trap between it triggering and getting the skill off. Or maybe just luck.
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starsg wrote:
Traps have two method, hidden or bait. I would suggest a "Bait" support gem for traps only.
This sounds interesting - please elaborate on what you mean?



A few suggestions on support gems linking to this gem:-
1) non-active bait support gem:-
cast a non-active bait, that will lure in any
target when linked to trap/mines gem. Requires decoy
totem to work in-conjuction with.

2) active bait support gem:-
cast an active bait, that will lure in any target
when linked to trap/mines gem. Requires a
zombie/skeleton/spectral gem to work in-conjunction
with.

note: have to becareful with "remote mines" & "trap" support gems that linked to other main gems. It may be over-kill in that case. Also note that the 2 main skills when you linked them all together. If to complicated, just remove the skills the "work in-conjunction with".
non-active = no movement/attack.
active = alive.

3) trap life support gem:-
a) Trap now have a life when triggered. Target have to destroy the trap in order to be set free. Reduce damage deal to target.





Perm. Retired from this unforgiving land of the Exiles.
Self-impost EXILED.
I don't know if this is intended or not, (so I haven't mentioned this in the bugs/support forum yet) but the Hatred Aura adds Cold Damage to this trap. Anger and Wrath do not add their damage to the trap, just Hatred.

It doesn't seem like this should be the case since Bear Trap isn't an attack made by a character. However, if the trap going off is considered an allied attack made by the trap itself, shouldn't Anger and Wrath work with it too?

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